Goals of sociatry

Sun Jul 12 18:13:15 CDT 2009

Hi,Adam ,Gail,
 Adam:   I agree with the general point you make that psychotherapy can become too individualistic and needs to be balanced with an awareness of our appropriate duties to others and our community. The specifics of deciding what those boundaries are gets sticky and need to be decided on a case-by-case basis, it seems. We're still emerging from an era in which sub-communities, families, groups, feel entitled to demand that the individual knuckle under. On the other hand, there are many other instances in which it might be argued that the situation derives from the individual's feeling insufficiently obligated to the group, family, or community.  At this point, other than to note that this spectrum is a lively one worthy of negotiating, I don't know that I can make broader generalizations on the side of either individual or group. 

Here is where the wisdom of personal choice, a decision that depends on a particular situation we are in..
A society that compels to sacrifice for the good of others-simple . No need to agonize about personal choice. A society that allows one to push their  agenda without regard to others: simple.
 But to live in an open society and to be free  in each situation to decide when to sacrifice and when to stand one's ground: :ah,that requires an evolution of the psyche. And not just of one individual.Rah,Rah,about methodology is not going to help.
It is quite possible,that evolution will continue at  it's pace, whatever the pace it,.We all feel the pressure to  speed  it up by the pace of out technological development,which require to accelerate our abilities to yield vs stand ones grounds,as we  slowly  becoming a  lvillage.
anath

From: ablatner at verizon.net
To: cgayle at zipcon.com
Subject: Goals of sociatry
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:17:08 -0500
CC: list at grouptalkweb.org

   Dear Cynthia, 
       You raise a good point, but a complex one. There are several levels here. First, I appreciate your noting that sociometry can be a group of concepts and tools to heighten personal self-awareness and intra-group dynamics. Yes, I agree, and it builds a more complex sensitivity into the system, along with the awareness of the variety of cross-currents, conflicts, guilts, etc.
       Then you leap to sociatry, but here I'm reminded of ol' Adler's ideal of social interest, caring for the welfare of the community, as a wholesome goal---an idea with which I generally agree. 
       I'm uncertain about whether Moreno's concept contributes much to this, though, and so far am unconvinced that any methods are significantly useful in effectively challenging the sociodynamic trend, which, if summarized, speaks to the political and socio-economic platitude that "them what has, gets." The opposite, though, pure communism, is problematic in its administration, so that as in Orwell's Animal Farm, them what has the power to redistribute goods and services tend to reserve certain extras for the great burden of responsibility they take. 
       I may well be wrong here, but I await some specific examples of actual political or economic progress being made because of anything that arises from that amorphous complex of methods, concepts, or ideals implied in the seemingly noble goal of sociatry.

    The term arises from a period of inflation in psychology, sociology, and psychiatry in the early-mid-20th century when the ideal that science will generate an upward slope of positive discoveries in all fields was as yet un-trammeled by the emergence a few decades later of the problem of unintended consequences. We've become more aware that science may not be all that influential after all. 

    Or that at a certain size of effort it transforms into politics. As we can see with Obama and what he's forced to compromise about in order to get a program passed, politics is the art of the possible. What then must be analyzed (and can only be disputed in the specific---that annoying term I continue to emphasize), is what is in fact possible.

       Speaking to ideals and hoping that others can come up with solutions is not sociatry, any more than good psychiatry would consist of a pollyanna-ish emphasis on seeking to be happy as a way to heal illness. 

    My own effort, as miniscule as it may be, is to foster a level of increased psychological-minded-ness so that more people can become aware of the relevant issues in culture from a broader perspective, and perhaps feel a little less paralyzed by not knowing what to do. 

    I agree with the general point you make that psychotherapy can become too individualistic and needs to be balanced with an awareness of our appropriate duties to others and our community. The specifics of deciding what those boundaries are gets sticky and need to be decided on a case-by-case basis, it seems. We're still emerging from an era in which sub-communities, families, groups, feel entitled to demand that the individual knuckle under. On the other hand, there are many other instances in which it might be argued that the situation derives from the individual's feeling insufficiently obligated to the group, family, or community.  At this point, other than to note that this spectrum is a lively one worthy of negotiating, I don't know that I can make broader generalizations on the side of either individual or group. 

      I'll be interested to hear from others what more specific methods they've seen applied and at what broader scale. 

   (We should not be reductionistic in assuming that what can be achieved in a small or medium group, a workshop, a retreat center, or an ashram, can then be extended to much larger groups or communities.) 

    Sincerely, Adam Blatner

----- Original Message ----- 
From: CGayle 
To: list at grouptalkweb.org 
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: Sociometry Training

One of the problems from my experience is sociometry is taught as awareness of consciousness of choice and access to roles, in creating a safe and well functioning therapy group, often excluding the sociatric healing goals of sociometry.  I think because training is usually limited to making a therapy or training group function well.  Outcomes of sociometric exercises make people are more aware of their and other's choices, and psychodramas or encounters can ensue depending on one's position and impact of the exercises.  All well and good.  But the sociatric goals of sociometry, such as to heal the sociodynamic effect, is not integrated into the training experience enough, if at all.  Healing sociometry enough for a therapy or training group to function well does not necessarily teach us how to live a lifestyle of choice for sociatric benefit.

People are more aware of their and other's choices from sociometry, but I have found it often leaving them holding onto their choices more...feeling validated to honor their choices and roles from then on out, sometimes in an almost narcissistic way. The awareness of sociometric choice and our roles are just first, albeit complicated, steps toward the goal of sociometry, which is sociatry.  

How much are we challenged to go outside our natural inclinations of choice?  How much are we challenged to go outside our comfort zone?  How much are we being taught how to (really) include the Other?  How much are stars taught to use their roles for community benefit or social good?  How much are we challenged to greatly stretch as individuals, to foster compassion and inclusiveness, and spend time with those we do not choose?  A hard thing to do, for myself as well. 

Choice also effects environmental issues.  I can be aware of choices I want to do to help the environment, but which ones do I reject because I don't want to do them?  Do I honor my choice or do I get challenged to look at what I reject, and learn to stretch beyond my comfort zone?

How do we learn to Love Ones Neighbor (or planet) as Oneself....if we just get better knowing what we like/want and don't like/want?  Or if leaders or stars are not taught how to use their social wealth to the benefit of the community?  Perhaps this is one of the biggest pieces Moreno left for us to continue to develop.

Cynthia Gayle
Seattle+

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Edward Schreiber 
To: HV Psychodrama 
Cc: grouptalk 
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Sociometry Training

Hi, 
Thanks for this!  I particularly love reading sociometry as "consciousness of choice and access to roles within the group and in people's lives."   I am made aware of systems thinking, Bowen and Holtzman and others, thinking that this focus on the freedom and range of choice we have, is dependent in part on who we are socioemtrically in this country, this world.  For instance, for many years, all of my life really, I could not take a role of legitimate, in terms of the social honoring of a partner recognized as equal to others.  Thank God that has changed and continues to change!  But I have a role too of consumer, for example.  In the HIV treatment world "victims" were changed to "consumers" attempting to empower people living with AIDS.  But consumer is deadly now, as we have perhaps, like some scientists tell us, have passed a number of tipping points in global ecological change.  The dying of the coral reefs being one of note.  So what does it mean to offer role training as the ecology may be tipping?  In thinking of these questions for many years and reading Who Shall Survive? with a magnifying class of a state of mind, trying to understand each meaning Moreno was asking us to consider.  The  most compelling for me, woven throughout, is his view on the sociodynamic effect as a human wide phenomena to which we are all being victimized.  Some more than others.  Women, continents of people, lgbt youth, and many  more.  But underneath this effect happening/noted in all social settings, Moreno realized an "social and organic unity" among humanity.  To the natural world as well.  Sociatry I believe is getting to that organic unity and using sociometry to allow the sociodynamic effect to be seen and changed.  Someplace we found a quote describing the instruments (sociometry, sociodrama, psychodrama) are for social change.  I liked that.   It's now about pioneering a new frontier, allowing ourselves to follow - and in my experience now, since my childhood, years of addressing life's ups and downs, it's fundamentally about finding a direct relationship with the Godhead, Zerka calls this an autonomous healing center within us.   I am finding this to be what I am finding in thinking about our method as having tools for all of humankind, but realize it's all in an early stage, still, now, in our collective's offering to the world.  In other words, I think the best of our work is before us.  Finding dialogue as Ann teaches is great.

Thanks,

Ed

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