PINEAL GLAND (2)

[Peter Howie]

Hi Ivo,

I was saying that the Pineal Gland, despite it having similar cells to  
light sensitive ones in other animals, receives no external light - it  
is well and truly in the dark in an objective sense. Sorry for the  
loose language with such a metaphoric discussion.

I am writing about and interested in how we know what we know. Hence  
remembering how different parts of the body have had purportedly  
different purposes over the millennia. After writing I then listened  
to a great podcast from our ABC radio station pointing out that most  
of what we know about the brian began the expand only some decades  
ago. That the production of hormones as neurotransmitters is only a  
bit over a hundred years old and for a little while before that the  
brain and nerves were thought to only work electrically - in the  
article I was listening to it was called the "dry brain" theory and  
when hormones were discovered it became the "wet brain" the wet brain  
theory. A transcript is available here as it doesn't appear the  
podcast is still available. What this means is that despite what might  
be termed politically correct - the scientific argument is not seen as  
politically correct. My colleagues despair for my interest in science  
and a sceptical vantage point. Despite my having lived in ashrams and  
followed a single spiritual practice for many years in the past. I  
think this is a slightly novel idea - that what I am putting forward  
is not politically correct becasue it is so new and the other stories  
have been around for thousands of years. On another adpect of this  
argument is the one that alluding to another authority still does not  
make an argument correct or right.

I have no argument with your coming to terms with the process of the  
list around this/these arguments. Calling them political is I think  
reasonably close. The implicit which is undiscussed is also different  
for each of us. What you think is implicit and undiscussed and what I  
think of as implicit and undiscussed would be quite different. What do  
you think. This would mean there are many content elephants in the  
room - though maybe only one process elephant. I think we talk/write  
this way because we don't have a well enough developed relationship(s)  
and so it does appear political.

There are also the forces that lead different people here to want to  
have a certain type of culture on the list. But so far we have what we  
have. some people come here and then get put off for a whole host of  
reasons. Some people come here and are more accepting. I certainly  
want different things than we often have here but lately we have been  
having pretty robust discussions as well as propositions, rebukes and  
engagement - including your original remarks which kicked off many  
subsequent discussions. I don't think I have responded directly to  
your email yet rather to others responding to you.

Cheers for the moment

Peter in Brisbane







On 15/01/2009, at 10:36 PM, Ivo Banaco wrote:

> Dear Peter, Adam, Connie, Ed and all,
>
> Let's awaken up the implicit here. Let us not pretend that this  
> recent dynamic exchange of e-mails doesn't exist. This is politics  
> in-action in the Group talk list. At least I feel in this way, I  
> don't know if anybody feel the same. I am only speaking for myself.  
> There is nothing wrong with "political arguments", what is wrong, in  
> my opinion, is letting the implicit stay there, not generating an  
> explicit output.
>
> What I am trying to say in objective terms and in a reconstructive  
> fashion is: Ed starts a tread with a certain topic: Pineal Gland. To  
> use again Hegel's thesis and antithesis terms we had the first reply  
> of Connie using a more spiritual emphasis (the thesis) to make sense  
> of the topic and a more "rational" response of Adam (antithesis).
>
> If this happens to be a good description of that dynamic, what  
> followed next was a "political fight" in the best sense of the word.  
> But let us assume that, genuinely and directly, and not pretend that  
> this isn't happening. At least in "real" politics, albeit all the  
> bad things in it, they have political parties, constant dialectical  
> arguments, making their differences crystal clear.
>
> For me, this last e-mail of Peter (whom I don't know but it doesn't  
> inhibit me to engage with him an intellectual argument), with due  
> respect, doesn't say virtually nothing unless for supporting Adam's  
> answer. Or to put it differently, it has a lot of content (and a  
> good one I must say), but the material is used in an implicit way,  
> in a political correctness that I must admit annoys me sometimes.  
> What do you, Peter, are defending in this topic, I mean clearly, and  
> not from your comfort zone? just that "the pineal is well and truly  
> in the dark". Are you saying that it's not possible to say more  
> about it?
>
> With care and good intentions,
> Ivo
>
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 12:35 AM, Peter Howie <peterhowie at macquariehouse.com.au 
> > wrote:
> Dear Adam and Connie,
>
> Good response Adam. I was thinking how the purpose and function of  
> the brain was for many millenia mistaken and thinking and all these  
> processes we associate with the brain were thought to come from the  
> heart . At least since Aristotle the brain was thought of as a  
> useless mushy bit.
>
> Adam my Japanese accupuncturist, and I am not advocating  
> accupuncture, however I have been around it for a while and he  
> taught me that the language of accupuncture is entirely figurative.  
> So when he says "Your liver is low" he doesn't mean my actual liver  
> but a type of body response that he interprets as a type of energy  
> which is titles "Liver". Or "wood" or any of a number of other  
> titles. Now I know a number of other accupuncturists who actually  
> believe that "a low liver" means that the actual liver is low. What  
> do they think it means when there is not enough "wood"? Unintended  
> pun here.
>
> I think the pineal gland hangs around 1) because we are relatively  
> more ignorant about it than other parts of the brain and 2) we  
> (generalisation of many but not all people) have a great desire to  
> find physical correlates for god and spirituality. There are  
> fantastic arguments about faith while at the same time a great  
> desire for miraculous proofs and the like. One very familiar one is  
> the idea that the human body is the machine that experiences god so  
> we don't need to create a machine/process/proof of god because we  
> are that machine/process/proof.
>
> Also Connie, with the pineal and Descartes, he had the philosophy  
> that there was a person behind our thoughts - the controller idea of  
> how are thoughts are controlled - and that the pineal was the most  
> likely place for it for similar reasons you wrote. From memory it  
> regulates melatonin and we are only beginning to understand what  
> role that plays apart from skin colour and body rhythms. And while  
> some of the cells appear similar to light sensitive ones, the  
> regulation of rhythms via melatonin from the pineal from ambient  
> light takes place via another pathway. The pineal is well and truly  
> in the dark.
>
> Cheers for now
>
>
> Peter Howie B.Sc, TEP
> Managing Director
> The Moreno Collegium for Human Centred Learning, Research and  
> Development
> 0411 873 851
> www.morenocollegium.com.au
>
> On 15/01/2009, at 2:07 AM, Adam Blatner wrote:
>
>> Dear Connie, you may be right! However, there are different levels  
>> of evidence-based thinking in general discourse, and many people  
>> get confused. Anything called a "theory" seems to have equal  
>> status, so there are state governments who, being ignorant of this  
>> simple fact, are intimidated by the word (ah, semantics) and feel  
>> obliged to give creationism an equal status to the theory of  
>> evolution in the teaching of science in the schools.
>>      When you mention that the mystery traditions and esoteric  
>> schools have long known...". though, I have reservations: That word  
>> "know" must be put on "pause" and examined. A great deal---almost  
>> all---that was known for sure by authorities, schools of thought,  
>> and such over the last three thousand years, upon careful  
>> examination and testing, has been proven repeatedly and in many  
>> ways to be flat wrong. This has been the cultural impact of science  
>> for three hundred years. So the key question to ask is:  "But is it  
>> so?"
>>
>>        I have no objection to figurative or symbolic language, and  
>> use it freely in my conversations. I think there is an important  
>> place for poetry and myth-making, but I am also committed to a  
>> sharper level of critical thinking that differentiates myth from  
>> fact.
>>
>>       I think there are some things that myth speaks to with  
>> greater usefulness in our lives than mere fact, such as the  
>> construction of romance or the sense of significance of oneself or  
>> one's movement, or the construction of meaning in general. However  
>> these constructions are then subject to the reality of "paradigm  
>> shift,"---the recognition that new perspectives can change the way  
>> we view the world in rather basic ways. So I hold on to what I  
>> think I know rather gently.
>>
>>      Thanks for noting what has been scientifically shown about the  
>> pineal gland---in fact, though, we still know very little, other  
>> than some of the things you pointed out. Then again, for all the  
>> advances in neuro-science, again we should recognize that for every  
>> advance, two or more questions come into view, and that's the  
>> definition (by Huston Smith) of a mystery.
>>
>>        So this is aimed really more for our general grouptalk  
>> community. I appreciate your pioneering in many ways the interface  
>> of spirituality and the use of action methods. Warmly, Adam
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Connie Miller
>> To: Edward Schreiber ; Grouptalk Listserv
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: PINEAL GLAND    Here is what I have;
>> The pineal gland was the last endocrine gland to have its function  
>> discovered. Its location deep in the brain seemed to indicate its  
>> importance. This combination led to its being a "mystery" gland  
>> with myth, superstition and even metaphysical theories surrounding  
>> its perceived function. The pineal gland is occasionally associated  
>> with the sixth chakra (also called Ajna or the third eye chakra in  
>> yoga). It is believed by some to be a dormant organ that can be  
>> awakened to enable "telepathic" communication. In the physical body  
>> the eye views objects upside down. It sends the image of what it  
>> observes to the brain which interprets the image and makes it  
>> appear right side-up to us. But the human body has another physical  
>> eye whose function has long been recognized by humanity. It is  
>> called the 'Third Eye' which in reality is the Pineal Gland. It is  
>> long thought to have mystical powers. Many consider it the  
>> Spiritual Third Eye, our Inner Vision.
>>
>> It is located in the geometric center of the brain. This correlates  
>> to the location of the great pyramid in the center of the physical  
>> planet. The Pineal Gland is about the size of a pea, and is in the  
>> center of the brain in a tiny cave behind and above the pituitary  
>> gland which lies a little behind the root of the nose. It is  
>> located directly behind the eyes, attached to the third ventricle.  
>> The true function of this mysterious gland has long been  
>> contemplated by philosophers and Spiritual Adepts. Ancient Greeks  
>> believed the pineal gland to be our connection to the Realms of  
>> Thought.
>>
>> Rene Descartes called it the Seat of the Soul, believing it is  
>> unique in the anatomy of the human brain in being a structure not  
>> duplicated on the right and left sides. This observation is not  
>> true, however; under a microscope one finds the pineal gland is  
>> divided into two fine hemispheres. This gland is activated by  
>> Light, and it controls the various biorhythms of the body. It works  
>> in harmony with the hypothalamus gland which directs the body's  
>> thirst, hunger, sexual desire and the biological clock that  
>> determines our aging process.
>>
>> When the pineal gland awakens one feels a pressure at the base of  
>> the brain. This pressure will often be experienced when connecting  
>> to higher frequency. A head injury can also activate the Third Eye  
>> - Pineal Gland.
>>
>> While the physiological function of the pineal gland has been  
>> unknown until recent times, mystical traditions and esoteric  
>> schools have long known this area in the middle of the brain to be  
>> the connecting link between the physical and spiritual worlds.  
>> Considered the most powerful and highest source of ethereal energy  
>> available to humans, the pineal gland has always been important in  
>> initiating supernatural powers. Development of psychic talents has  
>> been closely associated with this organ of higher vision.
>>
>> Grouptalk mailing list
>>
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>> http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
>
>
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