wisdom vs knowledge and humility

Tue Jan 13 11:18:37 CST 2009

PS the last quote is from the Talmud
Connie Miller TEP, LPC. NCC 
http://www.souldrama.com/ 
The International Institute of Souldrama 
620 Shore Rd 
Spring Lake Heights 
NJ 07762 USA 

1-800-821-9919 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ivo Banaco [mailto:ibanaco at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:42 AM
To: 'Adam Blatner'
Cc: 'Grouptalk'
Subject: Re: wisdom vs knowledge and humility

Great post Adam. 

This could lead us to another concept or verb or to pick Adam's line of thought another "to do-ing" concept: To learn...when do we learn, when do we stop learning? Mistakes could be the biggest way to learning, but could also lead to learning blockages. Also important is the type or attitude towards learning: I feel that sometimes people fall in two fundamental categories of learning attitudes - the creative learning - mostly an optimistic attitude towards learning (building constructive actions in face of the given) , or rather a conservative learning - like "things are just the way they are...we can't change it..yes I know the all story..I've been through all that an I've learn from it.", mostly a pessimist attitude towards the art of learning. One could always think that if this second mode is rather a block from learning, a time when you lost the do-ing...in Adam's sense. If that is so, the real learning could only be a creative one.

Best,
Ivo 

On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Adam Blatner <ablatner at verizon.net> wrote:
 Humility is an interesting concept, also. I view these as verbs, something you do, rather than something you attain (and then you "have it"). If you stop doing it, well, then you're not doing it, no matter how much you may have done it in the previous year. This applies to love-ing, faith-ing, cheerful-ing, wisdom-ing, and so now we have another one for this list, and perhaps others.
 To me it's a matter of simply admitting one can be mistaken, of not asking others to treat them as a cultural conserve, an authority who, because of having been right (or thought to have been) in some respects is necessarily right in other ways.
 It fits with creativity theory, it seems to me.

 So it's possible that a person who has made mistakes can still come up with some good words, good ideas. The problem is when certain statements are made with a level of assurance mixed with the aforementioned authority---implying that who I am should influence how you weigh what I say---that it becomes somewhat appropriate to wonder, "Well, who are you, then? How pure and enlightened are you, really?"

 I, like Malcom Pines, have made my share of foolish mistakes, and I try to learn from them. Some I'm not even sure I've figured out yet---what exactly I did wrong---but I do pay attention to the clues and think about. Others I see clearly where my error lay.

 I think we've entered a new era in the last century in which it has become more classy intellectually to be less strident, to sprinkle assertions with some qualifications such as sometimes, perhaps, may, under these circumstances, etc. As I read about the history of science it seems as if folks often seemed more (foolishly) certain of themselves, less aware of the boundaries or limitations of their own knowledge, much less considering that perhaps they were flat mistaken.

 Yet humility-ing should not stop one from presenting an idea, speaking up and suggesting an alternative. That slips from humility into excessive deference, as "I don't know many things, so I have no right to say anything." I find the possibility of dialogue helps, a civil forum for exchange in which ideas can be modified, tempered, shaped in friendliness. Role reversal, doubling, and a spirit of encouraging and drawing out helps, plus opportunities to go back and forth several times rather than to feel that an initial statement must stand firm.

 Warmly, Adam
----- Original Message ----- From: <mkarp11444 at aol.com>
To: "Adam Blatner" <adam at blatner.com>; "Grouptalk" <list at grouptalkweb.org>
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 10:15 PM 
Subject: Re: wisdom vs knowledge and humility

Recently, I asked Anne Schutzenberger if she thought the Dahli Llama, with whom she has worked, had humility. Anne , for the last 8 months has had a haemmorage behind her eyes, making her largely blind. She can't use the computer any more, can't read or phone out. She can see the kettle, the micro wave button, the light switch etc. Despite this, in March she will produce a new book, "le plaisir de vivre", the "pleasure to live" and is working on her next psychodrama book with the help of a secretary, plus writing a new preface to her magnum opus, "Vouloir Guerir" her work on cancer, which is in its 8th edition or more. All this and not being able to see at 89 years old and living alone in Paris. To the question on humility and the Dahli Llama, she said, " Humility? I don't know what that is. His salient quality is his sincerity. He is sincere. He is clear. He is the same inside as he is outside. He doesn't try to be different. He is a clear soul." I asked Malclom Pines, 82 now, a group analyst, also trained in psychodrama, my neighbour in London, how did you develop humility? Malcolm, a bit embarrassed said, " Well, I have made so many mistakes. From those painful experiences, I have gained a better understanding of compassion, becoming a bit wiser and gentler with others who have had similar 'falls from eminence'. As you get older, you see that you don't have to have all the answers. We have some of them but not the great existential ones. It becomes less frightening to look at our own lives and face the questions that are left. It is important to admit your mistakes and your achievements.". All the best, Marcia Karp
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-----Original Message-----
From: "Adam Blatner" <ablatner at verizon.net>

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:41:41
To: thana ag<anathga at hotmail.com>
Cc: <list at grouptalkweb.org>
Subject: wisdom vs knowledge

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