wisdom vs knowledge and humility

Tue Jan 13 10:39:44 CST 2009

Dear All

I will be in Chicago from February 9 until the 16th for an IAGP Board
meeting and the the Scientific Program Committee of IAGP Rome Congress.

Anybody knows of a not very expensive Hotel where I could stay not very far
from The Sheraton Towers in Chicago?

Thank you very much for your help.

Warm Regards

Manuela Maciel

-----Mensagem original-----
De: list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org [mailto:list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org] Em
nome de Adam Blatner
Enviada: terça-feira, 13 de Janeiro de 2009 15:23
Para: mkarp11444 at aol.com; Grouptalk
Assunto: wisdom vs knowledge and humility

    Humility is an interesting concept, also. I view these as verbs,
something you do, 
rather than something you attain (and then you "have it"). If you stop doing
it, well, 
then you're not doing it, no matter how much you may have done it in the
previous year. 
This applies to love-ing, faith-ing, cheerful-ing, wisdom-ing,  and so now
we have another 
one for this list, and perhaps others.
       To me it's a matter of simply admitting one can be mistaken, of not
asking others 
to treat them as a cultural conserve, an authority who, because of having
been right (or 
thought to have been) in some respects is necessarily right in other ways.
      It fits with creativity theory, it seems to me.

        So it's possible that a person who has made mistakes can still come
up with some 
good words, good ideas. The problem is when certain statements are made with
a level of 
assurance mixed with the aforementioned authority---implying that who I am
should 
influence how you weigh what I say---that it becomes somewhat appropriate to
wonder, 
"Well, who are you, then? How pure and enlightened are you, really?"

        I, like Malcom Pines, have made my share of foolish mistakes, and I
try to learn 
from them. Some I'm not even sure I've figured out yet---what exactly I did
wrong---but I 
do pay attention to the clues and think about. Others I see clearly where my
error lay.

      I think we've entered a new era in the last century in which it has
become more 
classy intellectually to be less strident, to sprinkle assertions with some
qualifications 
such as sometimes, perhaps, may, under these circumstances, etc. As I read
about the 
history of science it seems as if folks often seemed more (foolishly)
certain of 
themselves, less aware of the boundaries or limitations of their own
knowledge, much less 
considering that perhaps they were flat mistaken.

       Yet humility-ing should not stop one from presenting an idea,
speaking up and 
suggesting an alternative. That slips from humility into excessive
deference, as "I don't 
know many things, so I have no right to say anything." I find the
possibility of dialogue 
helps, a civil forum for exchange in which ideas can be modified, tempered,
shaped in 
friendliness. Role reversal, doubling, and a spirit of encouraging and
drawing out helps, 
plus opportunities to go back and forth several times rather than to feel
that an initial 
statement must stand firm.

        Warmly, Adam
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <mkarp11444 at aol.com>
To: "Adam Blatner" <adam at blatner.com>; "Grouptalk" <list at grouptalkweb.org>
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: wisdom vs knowledge and humility

> Recently, I asked Anne Schutzenberger if she thought the Dahli Llama, with
whom she has 
> worked, had humility. Anne , for the last 8 months has had a haemmorage
behind her eyes, 
> making her largely blind. She can't use the computer any more, can't read
or phone out. 
> She can see the kettle, the micro wave button, the light switch etc.
Despite this, in 
> March she will produce a new book, "le plaisir de vivre", the "pleasure to
live" and is 
> working on her next psychodrama book with the help of a secretary, plus
writing a new 
> preface to her magnum opus, "Vouloir Guerir" her work on cancer, which is
in its 8th 
> edition or more. All this and not being able to see at 89 years old and
living alone in 
> Paris. To the question on humility and the Dahli Llama, she said, "
Humility? I don't 
> know what that is. His salient quality is his sincerity. He is sincere. He
is clear. He 
> is the same inside as he is outside. He doesn't try to be different. He is
a clear 
> soul." I asked Malclom Pines, 82 now, a group analyst, also trained in
psychodrama, my 
> neighbour in London, how did you develop humility? Malcolm, a bit
embarrassed  said, " 
> Well, I have made so many mistakes. From those painful experiences, I have
gained a 
> better understanding of compassion, becoming a bit wiser and gentler with
others who 
> have had similar 'falls from eminence'. As you get older, you see that you
don't have to 
> have all the answers. We have some of them but not the great existential
ones. It 
> becomes less frightening to look at our own lives and face the questions
that are left. 
> It is important to admit your mistakes and your achievements.". All the
best, Marcia 
> Karp
> Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Adam Blatner" <ablatner at verizon.net>
>
> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:41:41
> To: thana ag<anathga at hotmail.com>
> Cc: <list at grouptalkweb.org>
> Subject: wisdom vs knowledge
>
>
> Grouptalk mailing list
> List at grouptalkweb.org
> http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
>
>

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