religion and spirituality

[Dario Silva]

Adam Blatner wrote: “But what bothered me is the answer-giving behavior

The other problem with Cohen, and to some degree Wilber, too, in these
videos, is the new age babble. It used to be called psychobabble, but now
it's spiritual-babble. Those are statements that are essentially platitudes,
cleverly disguised. Many recognized teachers and televangelists and others
are quite glib, perhaps quite sincere, it all fits in their mind, an answer
to every questions.”

 

Thanks Adam for having the courage to say this. 

 

 

 

paz,

Dario  

 

Darío Silva, Ph.D.      NMSU EAP      575-646-6603

 


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From: list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org [mailto:list-bounces at grouptalkweb.org]
On Behalf Of Adam Blatner
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 4:09 PM
To: REGINA SEWELL; list at grouptalkweb.org
Subject: Re: religion and spirituality

 

Responding to your comments of January 7    Campbell also notes that perhaps
the problem with religions today is that they myths have not caught up with
the economic and social realities of the world in which we live.  

       1. I am all for a re-thinking about new myths, and wrote about this
on my website : http://www.blatner.com/adam/psyntbk/creatmythmk.htm

 

   2. RS  Perhaps what we need are new myths.  Oddly enough, some of the new
science and new religion is backing up what the Mary Baker Eddy prosletyzed
to her masses -- the power of prayer, of "energy" and intention.

      AB: You may be right, and I sort of wish you were, but I am not sure
that much good science has indeed backed up the power of prayer. There's
lots of not-so-good science going around, too. 

    3. youtube video   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTb2kp9Y4Is   Shows
Andrew Cohen and Ken Wilber, two new-age "teachers" responding to an
emotional woman who is speaking about her inner conflicts.

    Regina wrote: I forced myself to watch it.  and I had to force myself to
watch it. I know that place of what Cynthia dubbed spiritual hunger.  I know
that place of resistance.  But we've reframed resistance in our psychodrama
world, no?  Haven't we decided perhaps that resistance is just lack of warm
up.  and might there be valid reasons for lack of warm up?  Like we, or
someone else, is pushing us into a role that we don't want or that we don't
have adequate skills or tools to occupy, or we think we don't have adequate
skills or tools, but we try to do it anyway because we think we "should" and
then - to steal for Ellis - we end up "shoulding all over ourselves."  

         AB: I agree and would add a few other comments: 

     a. Is it possible to eliminate sub-personalities, parts of self that
are regressive? I remember Ram Das saying that after 20 years of meditation
and spiritual effort (following his psychedelic experiments), he hadn't
"cured" a single neurotic complex. But, he conceded, they were "smaller."

          I might have answered that a person can have parts of oneself that
are little-kid I don't want to feelings and that doesn't disqualify the more
grown-up parts. I think it was Desmond Tutu or someone famous noting that
courage doesn't mean you're not afraid; rather, it means that you are afraid
and you go ahead anyway.

 

     b. But what bothered me is the answer-giving behavior. I will confess
that these guys---more Andrew Cohen, but a bit of Ken Wilber, too---though I
like many aspects of his philosophical work, but not all--- annoy me.
Perhaps this helped explain it. (And I admit there may be shadow elements
here.) I might have refrain from being so ready with answers, but engaged
instead in something that was more psychodramatic, or at least an inquiry.
This doesn't fit so neatly into a large class context, but this level of
learning perhaps should not be subject to that format.

       For example, I can't speak for this person in the video, but I have
found that symptoms of self-hate often relate to a variety of other issues
not brought out into the open, and possibly not even consciously related to
the things at hand.

      This woman was locating the distress in the dissonance between her
dedication to doing good in social action and the parts of her that don't
want to do good for others, or even be very grown-up. Perhaps, but unless we
deal with a general life review, we can't know if this is really what the
issue is. It may be unfinished issues with a lover, guilt and shame over
gullibility and sexuality (quite common), lack of clarity in identity and
vocational commitment (also very common), lack of general map of faith, and
so on---many possibilities. 

       So I felt annoyed at what seemed to me to be grossly unsophisticated
psychological pseudo-therapy, with glib answers.

 

     c. The other problem with Cohen, and to some degree Wilber, too, in
these videos, is the new age babble. It used to be called psychobabble, but
now it's spiritual-babble. Those are statements that are essentially
platitudes, cleverly disguised. Many recognized teachers and televangelists
and others are quite glib, perhaps quite sincere, it all fits in their mind,
an answer to every questions.

 

 (Am I this way and projecting my annoyance on Cohen? Maybe, but I'll be
open to exploration of words, point by point. I don't think he makes himself
vulnerable in this way.)

 

     Cohen and many other new age gurus make sweeping statements that cannot
be disproven. They're too vague. As you think, so your life will be. Not
really so obvious, because we all think so many internally contradictory
things. Make your mind pure?  Who has done this, and where is the evidence
that except for building a new-age following, those who are designated by
followers and by self as enlightened actually lead more exemplary lives? 

 

       RS: So the political consequences of spirituality - or lack there of
- I think are dependent on the tenets or myths or misunderstandings that one
subscribes to.  Not just the leaders - though they certainly have incredible
power to shape social rhetoric - but the peeps as well...  I personally lost
at least $10,000 in a break-up because a majority of people in Ohio felt
moved by their spiritual convictions to deny the rights of marriage to
unmarried people and denied marriage to same sex couples.  
       AB: This brings up the whole problem of spirituality and religion,
and the possibility that many people who pursue a variety of current
religious agendas (such as anti-homosexual political policies) are bothering
much with any personal spiritual endeavors. 

 

 

     So, back to trying to clean up email. Warmly, Adam

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