Amplifying Moreno's Work

[Bud Weiss]

BW:There is just so much to respond to here and of course, it would be great
if others who had many "up close and personal" expriences with Dr. Moreno
shared similar stories. And they of course would be their remembered stories
as are mine. I will only comment on one of the items now.  Your scholarship
is extraordinary and I am unable to manifest sufficient documents at this
time to add more value to this discussion.

I have always appreciated the formidable dedication you have to the
development and preservation of the knowledge base in this area and much
more.
Thank you for your courage and energies and devotion to the tasks.
 Blessings to you and to all of us for a healthy, happy, peace bringing and
purpose filled Holiday season and New Year.

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Adam Blatner <ablatner at verizon.net> wrote:

>  Dear Bud and all,
>     Ah, what a wonderful opportunity you had to be up-close and personal
> with the Moreno's at the Institute, harvesting so much of what was, alas,
> not written down. Examples:
>      1. ...role sets even an examination of the left and right side of the
> body and the issues regarding right and left brain were a part of Moreno's
> exploration used at times in open sessions as a beginning for a session.
> Spiritual roles, the constant issue of God vs the Devil and others aspects
> of this duality similar in many ways to Jung's duality.
>      ab: It would be wonderful to carefully and in detail describe these---
> and the international community will be correspondingly appreciative and the
> field enlarged.
>
>      2. Doris Twitchel Allen's regression--- AB: She did write a paper on
> "The Crib Scene," and the technique is powerful. I think I mentioned it in
> my Foundations of PD book--- BW:  to find yourself often getting people back
> into the womb and beyond.  AB: This I never heard of and again it would be a
> great paper. Have others used this?
>

BW: I actually experienced this in my first encounter with the Morenos at
Carl Hollander's Evergreen Institute in the Mountains outside of Denver.
Carl himself went back to the moment of his birth and felt a terrible
headache. He felt as though his skull were being crushed. Naturally, he
thought of being grabbed by an instrument to pull him out as he was stuck as
he made his way out of the womb. not an uncommon occurrence. Carl called his
mother and asked if there was indeed a critical moment in his birth. His
mother was astounded as she had never mentioned it to Carl feeling it was
just something better left unsaid. In fact, he was stuck there and it was
critical and they did pull him out as I recall with forceps to save him.

I have had others remember conversations at their birth and the look of
their parents and the entire atmosphere of the room doing this process.
Later in my work with Brian Weiss in Past Life Regression, I found this to
be a very common experience of people remembering so much detail about their
birth WITHOUT PICTURES SUPPLIED OR ANY STORIES TOLD TO THEM.


>     3.  BW: It is important to note the duality of roles. The prime of this
> is  If there is you, there must be the other. Camus' statement "I rebel,
> therfore We exist" would be close to Moreno's thought.  Moreno's early
> magazine for which writers like Kafka and Martin Buber and others wrote
> explored deeply existentialism and beyond.
>        AB: I agree in a modified way. I think that some roles don't require
> an audience or a co-player, such as the defecator or sleeper, psychosomatic
> roles, that are culture-influenced, and also there are many other factors.
> Of course most social roles are more effectively elaborated by another, but
> even then, one may play the same role with different elements expressed with
> different people. Indeed, playing the same role with different people
> without variations might be a subtle form of interpersonal pathology, a
> robopathy, lacking in spontaneity insofar as it doesn't take into account
> the individuality of the other. Of course, alas, this is the norm for
> authorities in many schools, the military, and so forth.
>
>     4. BW Do we simply throw that out as well and limit Moreno to some few
> words from a particular text?
>  AB   there is no talk of throwing anything out, but the proper use of the
> cultural conserve (e.g., Moreno's work) is to build on it, revise it, refine
> it, extend it. You've seen stuff that hasn't yet been written down so that
> people in, say, China or India or Bangladesh can make use of it. It would be
> a great gift if you could distill and describe such experiences. Of course,
> in addition to harvesting the best from the Moreno years, there is also your
> own creativity aside from Moreno, and after Moreno---and of course this
> explanation (if that's the right word) is meant for everyone in our field!
>
> BW: Moreno had intense discussions about past lives and how they might fit
> into a developmental of present behavior and the structure of the
> personality.  AB: I never heard of this; the details would be interesting!
>
> BW   He was very much into hypnosis as well--- ab: yes, and Jim Enneis
> wrote an article (and monograph) about this.
>    BW:...  and even had sessions with hypnotized protagonists finding their
> way to extrasensory perceptions.
>          ab: That I hadn't heard about, so another thing to write out in
> greater detail. ESP has many many subcategories, and many ways of working
> with them.
>
>    BW  Even without that, learning to double well allows you to experience
> things that are not revealed by the protagonist in words or even in the set
> with which you are presented. This comes up a lot in constellations too.
>       AB: Yes, though I believe in checking out a hunch as it's played with
> the protagonist. Sometimes the double may be mistaken in whole or in part.
>
>    BW   Was Moreno poorly read? I imagine that you are able to find your
> own way to such a conclusion. He read in at least 4 languages and I remember
> a discussion with him once in which he was encouraging me to learn other
> languages and began showing me how easy it was to go into other languages
> and had me reading a fair amount on the spot in Romanian.
>            AB: He was fairly well-read, but there is only modest evidence
> of much allusion to the writings of others or consideration of their work in
> depth.
>
> 5. An analysis of a person only from their writings or after their death
> with their having no ability to answeer in and of itself is a dangerous way
> to predict what he knew or did not know. Remember Moreno's discussion of
> Abraham Brill's psychoanalysis of Abraham Lincoln ( interesting write up of
> Brill's presentation from 1931 in Times Magazine here
> http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,846914,00.html
>        AB: This isn't a prediction, it's an effort to appreciate but not
> overly-idealize. He knew a lot, but there was also a great deal I see no
> evidence that he knew. Of course you're right that maybe he knew far more,
> but all we have is the writings and verbal reports.
>
>   6.  As Moreno grew, he did not include much of what he learned outside
> of that which extended his previous writings though he often pointed the way
> in somem of his letters and comments to others.
>      AB: Awaiting the letters to expand my appreciation.
>
>   7.  Meanwhile, he encouraged others to go beyond where he had gone even
> in his own methodology and it's theory. Their energies were supported and
> encouraged by him in this.
>       AB: this is true, and it is also true that many colleagues and
> students found this encouragement inconsistent.
>
> 8. BW   Of course there were limitations to Moreno's thought, however, I
> still find him to have been the most expansive mind in the field of social
> psychology and therapeutic applications ever.
>        AB: Let's say I concede this last point of his being the
> "most...ever" ! The problem is to realistically liberate people from
> feelings of disappointment and confusion when the encounter a limitation. A
> balance. Even the most-ever person can leave lots of room for later
> questioning and revision
>
>  9.  BW Eric Berne no small person in the field himself often viewed as a
> competitor of Moreno's said the following which is a paraphrase of the
> actual words which I can't find just now: " All of us in the field of
> psychology suffer from the same malady, that is that Moreno came first in
> all areas. " Berne was quite serious about that.
>     AB: it's in my Acting-In, chapter on history:   * Eric Berne wrote:
> "In his selection of specific techniques, Dr. Perls shares with other
> 'active' psychotherapists the 'Moreno problem': The fact that nearly all
> known 'active' techniques were first tried out by Dr. J. L. Moreno in
> psychodrama, so that it is difficult to come up with an original idea in
> this regard." From a review of Gestalt Therapy Verbatim, *American Journal
> of Psychiatry, *126(10: 15-20,), April 1970.
>
> 10. BW    In Moreno's autobiography chapter 2 pages 22-23, the following
> is perhaps instructive in this discussion: "Where I look at a child, I wee
> "Yes, yes,yes,yes, they don't have to learn to say yes. Being born is yes.
> You see spontaneity written all over the child in his act-hunger, as he
> looks at thbings, as he listens to things, as he rushes into time, as he
> moves into space, as he grabs for objects, as he smiles and cries..."
>          AB: Yeah, I really like Moreno's poetic vision... but what does
> this have to do with the other stuff?
>
> 11. And finally from wikipedia: Moreno "grew up in Vienna<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna> at
> time of great intellectual creativity and political turmoil. He studied
> medicine <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine>, mathematics<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics>,
> and philosophy <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy> at the University
> of Vienna <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Vienna>, becoming a Doctor
> of Medicine <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Medicine> in 1917. He
> had rejected Freudian theory while still a medical student, and became
> interested in the potential of group settings for therapeutic practice.[2]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_L._Moreno#cite_note-lucyozarin-1>
>      In his autobiography, Dr. Moreno recalls this encounter with Sigmund
> Freud <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud> in 1912. "I attended
> one of Freud’s lectures. He had just finished an analysis of a telepathic
> dream. As the students filed out, he singled me out from the crowd and asked
> me what I was doing. I responded, 'Well, Dr. Freud, I start where you leave
> off. You meet people in the artificial setting of your office. I meet them
> on the street and in their homes, in their natural surroundings. You analyze
> their dreams. I give them the courage to dream again. You analyze and tear
> them apart. I let them act out their conflicting roles and help them to put
> the parts back together again.'"[<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_L._Moreno#cite_note-autobiography-2>
> 3 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_L._Moreno#cite_note-autobiography-2>
> ] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_L._Moreno#cite_note-autobiography-2>
>  "
>
>   12. AB: Good, but this is also an example of whether you believe
> everything you read in Wikipedia, who wrote it, etc. Moreno for a time
> claimed his birthdate as 1892 until his birth certificate was found to be
> 1889.  So maybe he did... and maybe he rejected Freudian theory... or maybe,
> just maybe, he didn't really engage much or learn much about other aspects
> of Freudian theory until much later...
>      Also, in reading what he rejected, it was only a number of ideas that
> contrasted with his own.
>             There are many areas of Morenian work that is compatible with
> many areas of psychoanalytic work, even if the classical methods diverge
> radically. Anyway, with great respect: Please don't think my gentle
> attempts at refinement disagree in major ways with your on-the-whole fair
> amplifications.  You have much to offer and I appreciate your participation
> in keeping this venue (the grouptalk listserve) vital. I hope you will write
> up more of your anecdotes, and perhaps some others who remember stuff that
> never got written up, well, maybe they'll write it up, too. Warmly, Adam
>



-- 
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