sociatry ideas

Tue Aug 11 14:25:46 CDT 2009

I find Ivo's brilliance to be light a the path of awakening to a full  
reality of what we are facing.
Another resource is Gregg Braden's work (Returning to Zero Point)  
which in its essence is a movement to
the center of the symbol of the encounter.  The encounter symbol is a  
code for transformation, it is ancient,
found in Chinese and Zen texts and Moreno made it available as an  
instrument for awakening.  Thank you Ivo,
you follow Regina well!

Ed

On Aug 11, 2009, at 3:20 PM, Ivo Banaco wrote:

> Hi Adam and all,
>
> I understand your concerns about the excessive abstraction. In any  
> given area in politics for example I could give you several  
> examples of how the tools generated by psychodrama, sociodrama and  
> for that matter all the so called "consciousness movement" could  
> help. The problem with the specifics is that they could easily  
> loose track of the more general concern of this group. Loosing the  
> forest for a tree is a risk that I don't want to take either. But  
> OK, let's go for it. I will give you a specific...:-)
>
> The US economic crisis:
>
> Look to the unemployment numbers: about 15 million, a historical  
> number by any standard - 2 years ago unemployment was at more or  
> less 7 million people. Most of the money is being spent in the  
> rebuilding of the financial system and in some highly questionable  
> economic projects. There are no tools given to politicians, to my  
> knowledge, that help them to look beyond the numbers. Why the  
> financial system broke? If we can see beyond we can look to the  
> financial theatre, the actors, the spontaneity (or the lack of it),  
> the reactivity, the lack of reason, the exuberance, the egoistic  
> approach, etc. What is being done? Simply is being delivered a lot  
> of money to the same guys with the same instruments to mess it up  
> again. What could be done? A fundamental intervention, one that can  
> combine all the good stuff that was created (that become possible,  
> for example, to spread the risk, turning some important assets like  
> houses more affordable to poor families -  the so called subprime  
> families, etc) with what I would call the subjective and inter- 
> subjective interventions. Any important player in the market must  
> have skills beyond its obvious technical abilities. Intersubjective  
> skills, emotional intelligence and so. They are wonderful and  
> highly respected scientific literature supporting this (like Howard  
> Gardner multiple intelligences). But this is a major and complex  
> educational problem. Our societies gave over the years an  
> increasingly value to cognitive skills that yes, it's true, helped  
> to promote technological progress and material well being. But  
> today we all know that this is not enough and could be danger not  
> only to a particular nation but to the world at large. Society as a  
> whole must gave (urgently I would say) value to several dimensions  
> of the human being. Today an educated man and woman that will go  
> leading business, families, political affairs must have a new  
> sensibility and see things that others are blind to. Psychodrama  
> courses for example could be a priority education project combined  
> with the core training of a given person. All psychological  
> literacy (a wonderful term that I get from you) is important to all  
> leaders not in order to absolutize that particular type of  
> knowledge but to give it the place that is deserved (this is  
> particularly important, because to absolutize one dimension of life  
> is a big mistake and a very easy one to make).
>
> A "sociatric politician" would have that in the primordial agenda  
> and not just in footnotes don't you think?
>
> In a tomorrow's world a economic crisis would not be compensate   
> with 7 new million job loss.   We would easily know the tremendous  
> impact at all subjective and intersubjective levels in a family or  
> in a person (emotional, financial, and all the imbalances caused by  
> the situation). A business leader would try to reformulate their  
> business with their human resources in a different way. People  
> would not be just a number. Things would be worked out differently.  
> For example with the natural and frequent use of psychodrama and  
> sociodrama tools other reality surplus would come out, creativity  
> would be raised and solutions be found. Creativity is not just  
> faith or utopia or wishful thinking. It's an endogenous power of  
> the human being that have to be recognize.
>
> This is just some quick and not worked thoughts about specific  
> applications in business, leadership, social values and above all  
> education. This is just not just about being aware that psychology  
> and consciousness are important matters to social life. This is  
> about how to integrate in the social activities all the good  
> knowledge that We are being finding without loosing all the good  
> practices that part of what we do already. The challenges of the  
> integration of the new to a well stablish cultural conserve it's  
> the challenge of life itself, I believe. Some of you guys in  
> grouptalk should have an important voice in political decision  
> making in this crisis. Have Obama called you to ask an opinion? Do  
> you care at all or just keep just wondering like in the Dave  
> Mathews's song:
>
> "Tell me everything will be OK if I just stay on my knees and keep  
> praying
> believing in something
> Tell me everything is all taken care of by those qualified to take  
> care of it all."
>
> All the best,
> Ivo
>
> PS: About the word Sociatry. What I find is that iatros, is indeed  
> a physician but iatry comes from iatreia and that is not the healer  
> is the heal itself...and if it is true (and I'm not a specialist)  
> will make all the difference...
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Adam Blatner  
> <ablatner at verizon.net> wrote:
> Dear Ivo and all,
>     1. August 10, IB: Right Adam, but feeling that your point 4  
> misleading. In WSS Moreno finds the root of Sociatry in WSS in  
> Socius - the other fellow and iatreia - healing;
>      AB: sorry for the pedantry but I looked it up: Iatros is  
> physician    from iasthai   ancient greek for heal...
>          socius Latin companion
>
>     2. IB All of Moreno's ideas tried to fight the doctor-patient  
> model, and I don't think that sociatry relate to that at all,  
> although I can see your point.
>          AB: Startling statement, unclear how that seems so for  
> you. There's a little bit of truth re his wanting less  
> authoritative group psychotherapy, but his behavior at his  
> sanatarium was quite in keeping with the doctor-patient model.
>
>      3. IB But I admit this is a matter of taste, like your dislike  
> about tele.
>   AB: Please don't give people the impression that I dislike tele,  
> but rather think that while the dynamic is of central importance in  
> a more holistic psychology, the term perhaps might be better  
> understood by non-psychodramatists if called something else, such  
> as rapport.
>
>       4. IB  For me Sociatry calls for a higher level of  
> intervention in society, a inter/ trans disciplinary approach to  
> the socius with a fundamental emphasis to treat it. Quoting Moreno.  
> "The art and skill of the sociatrist will depend upon a synthesis  
> of knowledge toward which all social and psychiatric sciences will  
> have made their contribution." And that doesn't exist yet as such,  
> but we have all the ingredients...we have to cook them!
>          AB: Fine, when you've cooked up something specific let us  
> know.
>
>      5 IB Of course we can always question: If that is so what is  
> the difference between sociatry and politics. It should be none but  
> it is not the case at this moment. What sociatry could bring to  
> politics is a type of knowledge (e.g. sociometry, group dynamics,  
> all the invisible structures, cultural bias, etc,) that seems to  
> escape most of politicians today.
>       AB: Sure, it's nice to imagine that our political leaders  
> could know all sorts of things and that this would help, but can  
> you give a single example of how a political leader would act  
> differently, think differently, knowing the above? I'm not saying  
> they wouldn't, but integrating knowledge and ranking its relevance  
> is a problem.
>           More, it is unrealistic to just dump all we know into an  
> expert's lap and expect the expert to know how to pick out what is  
> more or less relevant. (It's surprising how many less-experienced  
> psychotherapists or psychiatrists will present a case by dumping  
> out information in such a way as to demonstrate they they haven't  
> begun to sort out what is more or less important---see my paper on  
> my website on the art of case presentation.)
>
>      6. In the future Sociatry could well be the real political  
> action.. why not as sociatry could not exist as such (if it aims a  
> large scale social intervention) without politics?  AB: The problem  
> is giving more specifics, more definition: One could also say  
> "Makingbetter" will be the real sociatry, which would also be the  
> real political action.
>
>   Perhaps this quibbling about terms is unnecessary. I certainly  
> want to support enthusiasm, and the belief that our field has  
> important tools to introduce into the mainline of the culture. I  
> have put this idea into many of my writings.
>               But an excess of abstraction just might evoke a  
> counter-reaction, the appellation of "psychobabble," or some such,  
> so I occasionally comment on this.
>
>      Best, Ivo    AB And good wishes to you...
>              "The term derives from a Latin and Greek root, the one  
> is socius, the “other fellow”, the other iatreia, healing."     see  
> above...
>
> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Adam Blatner <ablatner at verizon.net>  
> wrote:
> Okay, let's see. The world is in trouble in thousands of different  
> ways at many levels. What can "sociatry" do? Which methods are  
> useful with groups beyond the sick role? (i.e., beyond psychotherapy).
>       1. Starting small: Consider the feminist notion that the  
> personal is political and reverse it. In the 1970s the institution  
> of the happy nuclear family was questioned. Might it for some be a  
> prison?  Questioning social arrangements is one example. Could  
> therapy include social action? Groups whose task is to change more  
> than the consciousness of its own members generate new types of  
> group dynamics, concerning as how best to accomplish its chosen tasks.
>
>      2. Recognize that sociometry and psychodramatic methods  
> constitute at most only 23.2% of the many different kinds of skills  
> and knowledge involved in social action. Things like composing an  
> effective letter, lobbying, etc. --- there are hundreds or  
> thousands of such components that transcend any particular  
> discipline--- including the skill bases of rhetoric, advertising,  
> spin-doctoring, propaganda, all the elements of politics, lobbying,  
> newsletter editing, community organizing, etc. etc.
>
>      3. In a larger sense, much of politics throughout history  
> (including some military efforts) have been rationalized as  
> promoting what was for the time viewed as an improvement on the  
> previous system. For example, feudalism, as prone to tyrrany as at  
> was, was nevertheless believed to be an improvement of some degree  
> of order and predictability, better than what had been happening in  
> the earlier "dark ages" in which people felt far too vulnerable to  
> robbers, invaders, and pure barbarism.  In other words:
>
>    4. The problem with sociatry is the problem with fascism: The  
> doctor-patient model of the 1940s (relating to the -iatros Greek  
> root meaning physician) involved a wise knower-how-to-diagnose and  
> treat and a submissive patient. This does not apply well to large  
> social groupings. It is not at all clear that anyone knows how to  
> fix it all and can garner adequate consensus for "I'll just tell  
> you what to do and then you take this medicine and follow my  
> 'orders.' type of management.
>          I'm just noting that the word may be misleading. The  
> spirit Moreno advocated is something I share: Let's apply what  
> we're learning in psychology, sociology, and every other field to  
> efforts in every institution---political, educational, economic,  
> clubs, recreation, medicine, etc. I saw his idea as an  
> interdisciplinary vision during an era in which fields were more  
> compartmentalized. Ed's advocacy of social action has merit, but  
> awaiting specifics, I'm not sure that our field has more to offer  
> than other fields. It certainly has some to offer, though!
>
>    5. I'm continuing to do adult education classes and weaving in  
> principles from role theory, the idea of externalization and  
> personification of defenses (i.e., imagining that they can be  
> played, given voice, imagined to be little seductive con-men,  
> little Bernie Madoffs or whoever). , and other Morenian ideas along  
> with the contributions of others--- all part of the aforementioned  
> idea of "psychological literacy" or promoting the continued  
> integration of the insights of psychology in life.
>            (In a larger sense, I think sociatry refers in large  
> part to this cultural trend towards bringing psychology into the  
> mainstream of culture rather than its having operated at the  
> periphery as a semi-irrelevant procedure for folks at the margins  
> of society)
>
>   6. Writing, publishing, presenting at other conferences, and  
> talking about how psychodramatic and sociometric methods might have  
> applications beyond its     own field... I think these are small  
> but not meaningless efforts. A measure of humility is okay.
>
>    7. Continuing efforts (and modeling) in integrating good ideas  
> from other fields will also help to break down perceptions of  
> psychodrama as somewhat insular.
>
>    Those are a few things perhaps that can advance the idea of our  
> field's relevance to social activism.
>             The targets include not only global warming (as Ed  
> noted), but thousands of other worthy causes.
>
>         Some of these, interestingly, are complex: The question  
> regarding health care for me, for example, is to what degree I  
> support the present kluged-together bill or exert myself for the  
> cause of a single-payer system (as supported by the Physicians for  
> a National Health Plan)?  It could be argued that in the present  
> climate, a compromise is necessary and that single-payer has zero  
> chance. On the other hand, the present bill is so fraught with  
> compromises that it will be unsatisfactory in many ways, the  
> problem will "heat up" further, and more radical surgery will be  
> frustrated because "we already tried socialized medicine"  (when in  
> fact we only put our toe in the water, so to speak).   So political  
> decision-making is a problem in weighing which tactic to use in the  
> interim.
>
>         Warmly, Adam
>
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