sociatry ideas

[Ivo Banaco]

Hi Adam and all,
I understand your concerns about the excessive abstraction. In any given
area in politics for example I could give you several examples of how the
tools generated by psychodrama, sociodrama and for that matter all the so
called "consciousness movement" could help. The problem with the specifics
is that they could easily loose track of the more general concern of this
group. Loosing the forest for a tree is a risk that I don't want to take
either. But OK, let's go for it. I will give you a specific...:-)

The US economic crisis:

Look to the unemployment numbers: about 15 million, a historical number by
any standard - 2 years ago unemployment was at more or less 7 million
people. Most of the money is being spent in the rebuilding of the financial
system and in some highly questionable economic projects. There are no tools
given to politicians, to my knowledge, that help them to look beyond the
numbers. Why the financial system broke? If we can see beyond we can look to
the financial theatre, the actors, the spontaneity (or the lack of it), the
reactivity, the lack of reason, the exuberance, the egoistic approach, etc.
What is being done? Simply is being delivered a lot of money to the same
guys with the same instruments to mess it up again. What could be done? A
fundamental intervention, one that can combine all the good stuff that was
created (that become possible, for example, to spread the risk, turning some
important assets like houses more affordable to poor families -  the so
called subprime families, etc) with what I would call the subjective and
inter-subjective interventions. Any important player in the market must have
skills beyond its obvious technical abilities. Intersubjective skills,
emotional intelligence and so. They are wonderful and highly respected
scientific literature supporting this (like Howard Gardner multiple
intelligences). But this is a major and complex educational problem. Our
societies gave over the years an increasingly value to cognitive skills that
yes, it's true, helped to promote technological progress and material well
being. But today we all know that this is not enough and could be danger not
only to a particular nation but to the world at large. Society as a whole
must gave (urgently I would say) value to several dimensions of the human
being. Today an educated man and woman that will go leading business,
families, political affairs must have a new sensibility and see things that
others are blind to. Psychodrama courses for example could be a priority
education project combined with the core training of a given person. All
psychological literacy (a wonderful term that I get from you) is important
to all leaders not in order to absolutize that particular type of knowledge
but to give it the place that is deserved (this is particularly important,
because to absolutize one dimension of life is a big mistake and a very easy
one to make).

A "sociatric politician" would have that in the primordial agenda and not
just in footnotes don't you think?

In a tomorrow's world a economic crisis would not be compensate  with 7 new
million job loss.   We would easily know the tremendous impact at all
subjective and intersubjective levels in a family or in a person (emotional,
financial, and all the imbalances caused by the situation). A business
leader would try to reformulate their business with their human resources in
a different way. People would not be just a number. Things would be worked
out differently. For example with the natural and frequent use of
psychodrama and sociodrama tools other reality surplus would come out,
creativity would be raised and solutions be found. Creativity is not just
faith or utopia or wishful thinking. It's an endogenous power of the human
being that have to be recognize.

This is just some quick and not worked thoughts about specific applications
in business, leadership, social values and above all education. This is just
not just about being aware that psychology and consciousness are important
matters to social life. This is about how to integrate in the social
activities all the good knowledge that We are being finding without loosing
all the good practices that part of what we do already. The challenges of
the integration of the new to a well stablish cultural conserve it's
the challenge of life itself, I believe. Some of you guys in grouptalk
should have an important voice in political decision making in this crisis.
Have Obama called you to ask an opinion? Do you care at all or just keep
just wondering like in the Dave Mathews's song:

"Tell me everything will be OK if I just stay on my knees and keep praying
believing in something
Tell me everything is all taken care of by those qualified to take care of
it all."

All the best,
Ivo

PS: About the word Sociatry. What I find is that *iatros*, is indeed a
physician but iatry comes from* iatreia* and that is not the healer is the
heal itself...and if it is true (and I'm not a specialist) will make all the
difference...


On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Adam Blatner <ablatner at verizon.net> wrote:

>  Dear Ivo and all,
>     1. August 10, IB: Right Adam, but feeling that your point 4
> misleading. In WSS Moreno finds the root of Sociatry in WSS in Socius - the
> other fellow and iatreia - healing;
>      AB: sorry for the pedantry but I looked it up: Iatros is physician
> from iasthai   ancient greek for heal...
>          socius Latin companion
>
>     2. IB All of Moreno's ideas tried to fight the doctor-patient model,
> and I don't think that sociatry relate to that at all, although I can see
> your point.
>          AB: Startling statement, unclear how that seems so for you.
> There's a little bit of truth re his wanting less authoritative group
> psychotherapy, but his behavior at his sanatarium was quite in keeping with
> the doctor-patient model.
>
>      3. IB But I admit this is a matter of taste, like your dislike about
> tele.
>   AB: Please don't give people the impression that I dislike tele, but
> rather think that while the dynamic is of central importance in a more
> holistic psychology, the term perhaps might be better understood by
> non-psychodramatists if called something else, such as rapport.
>
>       4. IB  For me Sociatry calls for a higher level of intervention in
> society, a inter/ trans disciplinary approach to the socius with a
> fundamental emphasis to treat it. Quoting Moreno. "The art and skill of the
> sociatrist will depend upon a synthesis of knowledge toward which all social
> and psychiatric sciences will have made their contribution." And that
> doesn't exist yet as such, but we have all the ingredients...we have to cook
> them!
>          AB: Fine, when you've cooked up something specific let us know.
>
>      5 IB Of course we can always question: If that is so what is
> the difference between sociatry and politics. It should be none but it is
> not the case at this moment. What sociatry could bring to politics is a type
> of knowledge (e.g. sociometry, group dynamics, all the invisible structures,
> cultural bias, etc,) that seems to escape most of politicians today.
>       AB: Sure, it's nice to imagine that our political leaders could know
> all sorts of things and that this would help, but can you give a single
> example of how a political leader would act differently, think differently,
> knowing the above? I'm not saying they wouldn't, but integrating knowledge
> and ranking its relevance is a problem.
>           More, it is unrealistic to just dump all we know into an expert's
> lap and expect the expert to know how to pick out what is more or less
> relevant. (It's surprising how many less-experienced psychotherapists or
> psychiatrists will present a case by dumping out information in such a way
> as to demonstrate they they haven't begun to sort out what is more or less
> important---see my paper on my website on the art of case presentation.)
>
>      6. In the future Sociatry could well be the real political action..
> why not as sociatry could not exist as such (if it aims a large scale social
> intervention) without politics?  AB: The problem is giving more specifics,
> more definition: One could also say "Makingbetter" will be the real
> sociatry, which would also be the real political action.
>
>   Perhaps this quibbling about terms is unnecessary. I certainly want to
> support enthusiasm, and the belief that our field has important tools to
> introduce into the mainline of the culture. I have put this idea into many
> of my writings.
>               But an excess of abstraction just might evoke a
> counter-reaction, the appellation of "psychobabble," or some such, so I
> occasionally comment on this.
>
>      Best, Ivo    AB And good wishes to you...
>              "The term derives from a Latin and Greek root, the one is
> socius, the “other fellow”, the other iatreia, healing."     see above...
>
>   On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Adam Blatner <ablatner at verizon.net>wrote:
>
>>  Okay, let's see. The world is in trouble in thousands of different ways
>> at many levels. What can "sociatry" do? Which methods are useful with groups
>> beyond the sick role? (i.e., beyond psychotherapy).
>>       1. Starting small: Consider the feminist notion that the personal is
>> political and reverse it. In the 1970s the institution of the happy nuclear
>> family was questioned. Might it for some be a prison?  Questioning social
>> arrangements is one example. Could therapy include social action? Groups
>> whose task is to change more than the consciousness of its own members
>> generate new types of group dynamics, concerning as how best to accomplish
>> its chosen tasks.
>>
>>      2. Recognize that sociometry and psychodramatic methods constitute at
>> most only 23.2% of the many different kinds of skills and knowledge involved
>> in social action. Things like composing an effective letter, lobbying, etc.
>> --- there are hundreds or thousands of such components that transcend any
>> particular discipline--- including the skill bases of rhetoric, advertising,
>> spin-doctoring, propaganda, all the elements of politics, lobbying,
>> newsletter editing, community organizing, etc. etc.
>>
>>      3. In a larger sense, much of politics throughout history (including
>> some military efforts) have been rationalized as promoting what was for the
>> time viewed as an improvement on the previous system. For example,
>> feudalism, as prone to tyrrany as at was, was nevertheless believed to be an
>> improvement of some degree of order and predictability, better than what had
>> been happening in the earlier "dark ages" in which people felt far
>> too vulnerable to robbers, invaders, and pure barbarism.  In other words:
>>
>>    4. The problem with sociatry is the problem with fascism: The
>> doctor-patient model of the 1940s (relating to the -iatros Greek root
>> meaning physician) involved a wise knower-how-to-diagnose and treat and a
>> submissive patient. This does not apply well to large social groupings. It
>> is not at all clear that anyone knows how to fix it all and can garner
>> adequate consensus for "I'll just tell you what to do and then you take this
>> medicine and follow my 'orders.' type of management.
>>          I'm just noting that the word may be misleading. The spirit
>> Moreno advocated is something I share: Let's apply what we're learning in
>> psychology, sociology, and every other field to efforts in every
>> institution---political, educational, economic, clubs, recreation, medicine,
>> etc. I saw his idea as an interdisciplinary vision during an era in which
>> fields were more compartmentalized. Ed's advocacy of social action has
>> merit, but awaiting specifics, I'm not sure that our field has more to offer
>> than other fields. It certainly has some to offer, though!
>>
>>    5. I'm continuing to do adult education classes and weaving in
>> principles from role theory, the idea of externalization and personification
>> of defenses (i.e., imagining that they can be played, given voice, imagined
>> to be little seductive con-men, little Bernie Madoffs or whoever). , and
>> other Morenian ideas along with the contributions of others--- all part of
>> the aforementioned idea of "psychological literacy" or promoting the
>> continued integration of the insights of psychology in life.
>>            (In a larger sense, I think sociatry refers in large part to
>> this cultural trend towards bringing psychology into the mainstream of
>> culture rather than its having operated at the periphery as a
>> semi-irrelevant procedure for folks at the margins of society)
>>
>>   6. Writing, publishing, presenting at other conferences, and talking
>> about how psychodramatic and sociometric methods might have applications
>> beyond its own field... I think these are small but not meaningless efforts.
>> A measure of humility is okay.
>>
>>    7. Continuing efforts (and modeling) in integrating good ideas from
>> other fields will also help to break down perceptions of psychodrama as
>> somewhat insular.
>>
>>    Those are a few things perhaps that can advance the idea of our field's
>> relevance to social activism.
>>             The targets include not only global warming (as Ed noted), but
>> thousands of other worthy causes.
>>
>>         Some of these, interestingly, are complex: The question regarding
>> health care for me, for example, is to what degree I support the present
>> kluged-together bill or exert myself for the cause of a single-payer system
>> (as supported by the Physicians for a National Health Plan)?  It could be
>> argued that in the present climate, a compromise is necessary and that
>> single-payer has zero chance. On the other hand, the present bill is so
>> fraught with compromises that it will be unsatisfactory in many ways, the
>> problem will "heat up" further, and more radical surgery will be frustrated
>> because "we already tried socialized medicine"  (when in fact we only put
>> our toe in the water, so to speak).   So political decision-making is a
>> problem in weighing which tactic to use in the interim.
>>
>>         Warmly, Adam
>>
>> Grouptalk mailing list
>> List at grouptalkweb.org
>> http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
>>
>>
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