Ladino2

Tue Apr 28 15:04:05 CDT 2009

A little more. The Ladino-speaking Jews went to Amsterdam, and from there were among the first Jews to emigrate to the United States. They established several small communities and were more influential in the middle-Atlantic and the South. 
      The second wave was Yiddish-speaking, but not so much: They were the German-Jewish community that came in the early-mid 19th century to the USA, and became more established by the later 19th century---also more assimilated. It was from this community that the Reform Jewish denomination springs. Their houses of worship came to be known as Temples, while Orthodox and Conservative still used the term "synagogue."
      The third wave came during the 1880s through the 1920s before the congress passed an anti-immigration act which shut down immigration except for just trickle between 1922 or thereabouts and the 1960s. Mostly Yiddish-speaking, mostly into Ellis Island and that area, made up what came to be 80% of the American Jewish community. The established German Jews found these newcomers, mainly from Eastern Europe, to be uneducated and coarse. Having one's child fall in love with an Eastern European immigrant or their child was akin to a major marrying-down in class and almost marrying-out---many romances were afflicted with this tension. 
        A fourth wave came after the 1960s, from Iran (large communities in Los Angeles), Russia, some from Israel, Iraq, elsewhere. There were also a modest number trickling in after WW2, some holocaust survivors, etc.---but it was still hard to get visas. 

     Very complex and fascinating history. I'm sure the stories of immigration and emigration for other ethnicities have also been most complex, affected by many economic, social, and political factors.    Warmly, Adam
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Adam Blatner 
  To: Michael Wieser 
  Cc: list at grouptalkweb.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 1:51 PM
  Subject: History of Judaism-- Ladino


  Dear Michael, 
        Yiddish is a creole language of northern-European Jewry, Lithuania, Poland, Russia, Hungary, Ukraine, Some Germany and Austria..It is based about 69% on 16th century High German, 18% Hebrew, and a variable mixture of Slavic, French, and other languages. It was used by women and the general population aside from actual liturgy---classical Hebrew was used for prayers at home or in the synagogue, learning Hebrew to study Talmud in the kheder (elementary school) or Yeshiva (high school for the more scholarly and talented). Many--probably most---boys went off to work in their teens. Yiddish was written using the Hebrew alphabet in a phonetic fashion. 

        Ladino is like that, but derives from the common language spoken by the large population of Jews in Spain in the 14th and 15th century. In 1492, not only did Columbus sail the ocean blue, but Ferdinand and Isabella, rabid Catholics, expelled the Jews from Spain, forcing them to sell everything for near nothing, to find ships to carry them---mainly into various ports in the Ottoman Empire. Some were enslaved. It was a terrible tragedy. Yet communities were re-established in the emerging communities of Amsterdam, Turkey, Italy, Palestine, Algeria, and elsewhere. Many of these folks continued to speak in the 15th century dialect of Castilian Spain, with (as with Yiddish), an admixture of Hebrew and other local variants. So Ladino was for Southern Europe what Yiddish was for North-East-Central Europe. It, too, when written, used a Hebrew alphabet. 

      There were other variants like this---regional types of Arabic written again in Hebrew script by the communities living throughout the Arabic world. 
           
       Your great-grandfather? That would put him in the general era of what? Moreno in Vienna? In spite of the active Jewish community that was rising in the professions, etc., as in Romania, there was also a great deal of intense anti-semitism in all those countries. 
        Did your grandparents assimilate, convert, what's the story with you?  Warmly, Adam      
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Michael Wieser 
    To: list at grouptalkweb.org 
    Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 1:24 PM
    Subject: Re: Moreno History (sort of)


    Dear Adam and others,
    could someone explain to me the term "Ladino-speaking Jews".  My grand-grandfather spoke "Ladinisch" and moved from a northern part of Italy. Some told me that Sephardic Jews spoke the same but I still wonder if it is the same.
    Warmly
    Michael

    PS: J.L. moved around 1895 to Vienna.


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