Who Shall Survive

Tue Oct 21 07:04:46 CDT 2008

Adam,

Alas, I agree with you on many levels.  Plowing through Moreno's original work can be painful.  We have put significant drains on society with our technological advances in medicine...  so we can keep the Terri Shivos of the world hooked up to machinery for years after her brain is gone and keep many people alive who wouldn't.  We have also limited the use of technology to limit population growth.  Whatever one's stand on abortion, the data I have seen (this is not my area so I don't guarantee expert status here) bear it out that when abortion is available and non-stigmatized, population growth declines.  My hypothesis is that when women are given (real control, and endorsement of that control from the major powerbrokers - ie politicians, priests, etc) control over reproduction, population growth also is more self-limiting.  And according to "Freakanomics" the data indicates that when abortion rates go up, in about 16 years, the violent crime rate goes down, and vice versa.  

The point is, the way power in society is distributed has an impact on who shall survive.  In the exercise I do in class (I haven't even updated it to include really old people or people with diabetes or people with lupus or whatever...)  the retarded boy, the guy who has engaged in homosexual behavior, the nun and the 60 + year old doctor ALWAYS die.  And 40 may be the new 30 to us, but to 18 year old college students in Ohio, 40 is OLD - especially if you are female.

I would add that we are already doing "soft-eugenics" at some level - those who can afford insurance have more chance to be the drains on the system and those who qualifiy for particular state assistnce, those who don't.... not so much.  And we are doing it with the culture of "luxury" - at great cost.  A look at convenient diets around the world....  as fast, processed, sugary food has become readily available, those at the bottom of the system have packed on the pounds and become much more succeptable to diabetes and other weight related diseases that tend to shorten life span.  Those with more resources - are more likely to go for something a bit more upscale.  There is always a line, for exampe, at the deli at the Whole Foods that's down the street from my house... and cheap is not an adjective I normally use to describe Whole Foods...  

And more directly, we make life and death decisions - via the politicians we put in office (I am visualizing Blue Anath)  about who lives and who dies and the quality of those lives.  Remember the images of the poor folks trying to walk out of New Orleans?  And huddled in the football stadium...  And we make life and death decisions about war (and many of our returning soldiers may be coming home with their bodies in tact, the their minds???  their emotional selves????  and we don't offer enough mental health services) and it tends to be the working class and the working poor who are more likely to sign up for military service as a way out of poverty.  We do this when me make decisions about funding medicare and medicaid and the state children's health insurance plan and when we talk about insurance in general.  And I'm guessing that a voluntary eugenics program would end up being a "sign me up cause I'm poor and my family needs the money" plan.  

peace,
regina sewell, phd
----- Original Message -----
From: list-request at grouptalkweb.org
Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008 1:00 pm
Subject: List Digest, Vol 28, Issue 21
To: list at grouptalkweb.org

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. who shall survive---contemporary questions (Adam 
> Blatner)
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> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 10:38:06 -0500
> From: "Adam Blatner" <ablatner at verizon.net>
> Subject: who shall survive---contemporary questions
> To: <list at grouptalkweb.org>
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> 
> Dear All, 
>        I'm reading an amusing 
> satire  titled "Boomsday" by Christopher Buckley. One of 
> its devices is the following: Faced with a growing national debt 
> and the retirement of the Boomers, the young people, led by a 29 
> year old blogger, stage a minor tax revolution. They don't want 
> to have to pay for the Boomers' retirements! As a solution, a 
> sympathetic senator proposes a law that offers tax incentives 
> and other advantages to anyone over 65 who wants to participate 
> in the Voluntary Transition program. That's an euphemism for 
> killing your self. More benefits for doing it before age 75. 
> Then there's a lot of funny plot and all---the author, the son 
> of the late conservative theorist William Buckley---has written 
> other funny books, too. This book, in my opinion, takes a few 
> more swipes at conservative positions than at liberal ones, but 
> generally makes fun of foolishness all over. 
>        I remembered that Moreno 
> had suggested something like this: On pages 609-12 in Book V of 
> Moreno's 2nd edition (1953) of Who Shall Survive?  (you can 
> read these pages by going to the ASGPP website 
> www.asgpp.org  and clicking on the library, then on this 
> book, and then on the book cover, and browsing!  In it he's 
> suggesting that anyone over 35 (!) off themselves and that folks 
> avoid any kind of reproductive control---not even the rhythm method.
> 
>     I find this an example of how Moreno could 
> casually "shoot from the hip" and just think out loud on paper. 
> I am not aware of his ever having really deliberated on his 
> thinking, discussing pros and cons. It's also an example in my 
> mind of the way that he was brilliant, but could also be perhaps 
> very, very mistaken. We should avoid making his writings into 
> the type of cultural conserve that we rely on or take on 
> authority. I respect his creativity enough to listen (or read---
> which isn't easy, by the way), but not enough to buy into 
> everything he says. In fact, I find myself noticing questions in 
> my mind or tentative objections on almost every page.
> 
>        On the other hand---back to 
> the neo-eugenic approach both authors note---while I don't 
> support the over-35 business, I do think both have cracked the 
> door open to a social norm that has grown up in the last 
> century. In the olden days we couldn't keep people alive that 
> much. Now with modern medicine, we can keep babies that would 
> have died alive, and extend the lives of adults, so that the 
> population of the world has tripled since Moreno wrote the 
> aforementioned words!!!
> 
>        In our present crisis, 
> there is an interesting new idea: What if we need to prioritize, 
> ration, cut back? What if we can't afford to keep alive those 
> who are significant economic drains? What about the fact that 
> our society has more people in jail than any other country on 
> earth? And many other examples of problems that require over a 
> hundred thousand dollars in expenditures to rehabilitate---often 
> over a million dollars, the way technology is advancing. Just to 
> make "a modest proposal" (alluding to Swift's satirical piece), 
> to provoke conversation, would it be taboo to ask whether tax 
> incentives or even saying to some folks, "We'll give $50,000 to 
> you heirs if you engage in "voluntary transition" ? 
> 
>        Ah, the many sides of 
> life's conundrums. The sign-off motto for the next decade, I 
> predict. "We can't afford it." 
> 
>                    Warmly, Adam
>       
> 
>             
> Adam Blatner, M.D.
>    website: www.blatner.com/adam/   
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> End of List Digest, Vol 28, Issue 21
> ************************************

regina sewell, Ph.D.

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