structure, unity, generalizations

[Adam Blatner]

Dear Marcia, (and Ed and Grouptalk)

      The reason you intuitively discern similarities among people is that life is complex and may be discerned to be operating at many levels!   http://www.blatner.com/adam/psyntbk/socbns.htm    http://www.blatner.com/adam/psyntbk/mindcomplexities.html   and so in many ways we share commonalities, and in that sense are the same. 
           On the other hand, we are also unique, because as a result of many categories of variables, each with many sub-categories and even more specifics, we are a nexus of differences!  http://www.blatner.com/adam/psyntbk/individuality.html

         This dialectical tension between two ideas is also present in Moreno's claim that society "has" a structure. There is no out-there objective structure, and one might well argue (as have a number of philosophers, at length) that it is misleading to imagine that objectivity is a sufficient way of thinking about reality---it denies our co-creative structuring of reality via our own consciousness!  So Moreno was right in intuiting some patterns that we can discern, and that these sociometric dynamics were significant and deserved recognition; but he was limited by his modern world-view in thinking that "there are" structures rather than "we discern structures."  His other insight into the pervasiveness of the creative process actually implies that we should hold loosely to our understandings, not tightly, recognizing that knowledge continues to evolve, require revision, refinement. 
          
        The political implications are that we must resist becoming over-inflated and grandiose (and resist unconsciously imitating Moreno), but rather we should explore ways we can implement various models and create new ones. 

      The problems with some of these concepts is that they generate great ambition while delivering elusive actual methods (except those that which can be used by individuals and in small groups of willing and educated participants). I am certainly willing to be corrected by  others offering specific examples of how I'm mistaken. 

         
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Edward Schreiber 
  To: MKarp11444 at aol.com 
  Cc: list at grouptalkweb.org 
  Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:05 AM
  Subject:  People are the same


  Dear Marcia,
  You are writing about the Organic Unity.  That which connects all of us to the Source - we are an expression of that Source, the Godhead.
  Third - the Central Structure, in my view, is about the SDE, which impacts, influences all groups, all humanity.  It's the interplay of the SDE and the OU that we touch, with the method - which you are a Master of.    By the way, I miss you!  Hope  see you in England & Granada next year.  Much love,   Ed






  On Oct 9, 2008, at 4:12 AM, MKarp11444 at aol.com wrote:





    From: MKarp11444 at aol.com
    Date: October 9, 2008 4:00:33 AM EDT
    To: list at grouptalk.web
    Subject: People are the same




    Hello Ed, Adam and all.
    The "central structure that either is found or discernible in every human society" helps me to understand why it is possible to work with so many different cultures and dfferent habits.WhenItravel to so many countries using Moreno's method I find that people are essentially the same. I know that Moreno said we have essentially 5 common dyads: the teacher-pupil, parent-child, employer-employee, and I can't remember the other two. (Does anyone know?) but reading Moreno's quote about the central structure and about telicrelationships makes me think that the sociodynamic effect incorporates it all.Even aJapenese person talking to a son in a way unfamiliar to me with extreme honoring forexample, I feel connected and generally understand what is being said sometimes before the translator translates. How is this possible?It surprises me.Am I correct in thinking that it is this central structure that so profoundly connects us and transcends the culture barriers? Can anyone clarify or add to my thinking about this? What I am questioning is how come I wind up feeling people are the same even though huge barriers separate us. Marcia Karp
    Grouptalk mailing list
    List at grouptalkweb.org
    http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org

  "The discovery that human society has an actual, dynamic, central structure underlying and determining all its peripheral and formal  
  groupings may one day be considered as the cornerstone of all social science.  This central structure - once it has been identified - is  
  either found or discernible in every form of human society, from the most primitive to the most civilized: it is in the genesis of every  
  type of society.  In addition, it exerts a determining influence upon every sphere in which the factor of human interrelations is an active  
  agent - in economics, biology, social pathology, politics, government and similar spheres of social action."    Dr. J.L. Moreno


  Sociodynamic Effect (SDE) moves resources from the whole to the few -  at the expense of the world and many. 
     Social Organic Unity is what underlies the SDE  - our connection to the Godhead that emerges within us, in our work, in groups.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://grouptalkweb.org/pipermail/list_grouptalkweb.org/attachments/20081010/650a89ac/attachment.html