List Digest, Vol 28, Issue 9 topic: consciousness
Linda Ciotola
vegmom at closecall.com
Thu Oct 9 12:27:49 CDT 2008
Hello everyone: I have been quiet on the listserve lately, following the
death of my mother, and trying to get ready for the TEP exam . However, I
did want to make a brief comment to the conversation here. The Power of Now
speaks, I think, to those for whom developing the "witness role" (
psychologists might call it the" Observing Ego" ) is new. For yoga
practitioners and others who have had this practice of what I call
"yogamind" it may not offer much that is new . However, A New Earth , while
describing how we as individuals can develop a higher level of consciousness
and spiritual intelligence , offers a perspective that is more direct about
the fact that as each individual becomes more conscious, we create "a new
earth" because we impact the collective unconscious. Both are valuable ,
just depending upon which is the better match for one's current warm-up.
Souldrama uses action methods to guide people thru the process of moving
into a higher level of consciousness, from rational intelligence, emotional
intelligence, and spiritual intelligence to an integration of all of those.
Namaste, Linda Ciotola
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: sociodynamic effect (Ivo Banaco)
2. One day workshop in NJ 8 CE Hours (Connie Miller)
3. Re: The distress is world wide (Kim Cox)
4. Re: The distress is world wide (Edward Schreiber)
5. Re: The distress is world wide (Kim Cox)
6. Re: The distress is world wide (Edward Schreiber)
7. Fwd: People are the same (MKarp11444 at aol.com)
8. Re: People are the same (Edward Schreiber)
9. (HV Psychodrama)
10. Re: (Linda Condon)
11. Re: People are the same (Edward Schreiber)
12. Our consciousness (Connie Miller)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 18:20:36 +0100
From: "Ivo Banaco" <ibanaco at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: sociodynamic effect
To: "Adam Blatner" <adam at blatner.com>
Cc: list at grouptalkweb.org
Message-ID:
<2aab7cf80810081020p1843de85x64835989a1fcd99b at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Dear Adam, Ed and all,
I would like to share my thoughts on the subject.
For me, in this quote, Moreno is not just talking about the telic relations
in the sense that those tele structures tends to be the basis for different
group structures. As I understand the "central structure" is a deep
structure that underlies all human beings independently of tele. The central
structure could be the common traits that we all share, the universal, the
unity.
Sociometry gave and gives us several empirical data mostly about *types* of
group structures. The corollaries that Adam is referring are, I think, very
important, but it's just the first step. What we are, what we tend to do,
how we tend to behave, prefer, to be attracted to, indifferent, what we
repulse, and so on. To be aware of that is to be above that. From horizontal
typology we move to an understanding that besides that we all have
commonalities that we share to every single human being. If we get to that
deep understanding and really feel this we can reach the meaning of Moreno's
"central structure". This is, I think, a fundamental step to unity. To feel
our connection with God (or whatever name we want to call, if nothing else,
we can all agree that we all came from the Big Bang?or we are all living in
the same planet?universe).
The problem is that to realize this we have to feel it, not just
intellectually. The question that links Social Organic Unity and SDE is how
we can move from diversity to unity. So I don't agree with Adam in the sense
that there is, I believe, no contradiction between the two; I believe that
it's a dynamic move from diversity to unity. But I completely agree with
Adam when he says that it's not easy at all to make that move, to convert
Moreno's vision - that I think we all share - to Adam's "do-able methods".
All the best,
Ivo
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Adam Blatner <ablatner at verizon.net> wrote:
> Dear Ed and all,
> I confess my density, my ignorance. I fear I only understand part of
> this noble quote
> of Moreno's:
> "The discovery that human society has an actual, dynamic, central
> structure
> underlying and determining all its peripheral and formal groupings may one
> day be
> considered as the cornerstone of all social science. This central
> structure - once it has
> been identified - is either found or discernible in every form of human
> society, from the
> most primitive to the most civilized: it is in the genesis of every type
of
> society. In
> addition, it exerts a determining influence upon every sphere in which the
> factor of human
> interrelations is an active agent - in economics, biology, social
> pathology, politics,
> government and similar spheres of social action."
> AB: I agree in general, and of course he's talking about telic
> relations,
> which I think deserves to continue to be explored and better understood.
> I fail so far to appreciate yet how this insight can be converted into
> reliable and
> do-able methods. His sociometric approach so far requires a great deal of
> warming-up and
> readiness of a group. (I'm reminded of some early scientific studies that
> required
> elaborate preparations, though in later years other methods were developed
> that could make
> the process easier.)
> So I await more specific suggestions and papers. I'm happy to
> report that I
> hear that our journal may well re-commence, though I don't know when or
how
> that will
> happen.
>
> Ed also notes the following: Sociodynamic Effect (SDE) moves resources
> from the whole
> to the few - at the expense of the world and many.
> Again, the rich tend to grow richer, the poor poorer, economically,
> socially, etc.
> What isn't clear is what should be done about this. A number of
> obvious sociometric
> corollaries exist:
> 1. Brighter and more social people tend to attract more friends. The
> opposite is also
> true.
> a. People with a wider role repertoire versus people with narrower
role
> repertoires.
> b. People who are perceived to be vehicles for power attract
> "aristo-tele," or
> others wanting to be associated so as to partake of the fame, fortune and
> other benefits
> of that power, celebrity, etc.
>
> 2. Popular people tend to arrange things to serve the benefits of their
> own group.
> Powerful people tend to be people who have at least been
> moderately popular
> or liked by those who have helped them to come into more power, such as
the
> cardinal who
> promotes the priest into a bishopric. "Team Players," loyal people, and
> sycophants may
> be promoted as often (or in some cases even more often) than on the basis
> of merit. Let us
> not forget simony, the sin of paying for an office, giving kickbacks,
> greasing the palms
> of those concerned, etc.
>
> 3. Ed notes that Social Organic Unity is what underlies the SDE - our
> connection to
> the Godhead that emerges within us, in our work, in groups.
> AB: Is this so, and if so, it seems to contradict the SDE! Undoubtedly I
> lack
> understanding of the connection here and am open to instruction.
>
> Warmly, Adam
>
>
>
> Grouptalk mailing list
> List at grouptalkweb.org
> http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
>
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:41:41 +0000
From: "Connie Miller" <connie at souldrama.com>
Subject: One day workshop in NJ 8 CE Hours
To: "grouptalk" <list at grouptalkweb.org>
Message-ID: <W9124230910221221223491301 at webmail16>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Open the Door Let Your Spirit Soar
Experience this new Process
November 1, 2008 Connie Miller LPC, NCC, TEP
Creator of Souldrama
Price $135
Hours 9 -5
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www.souldrama.com
Long beach Island New Jersey
Sisters of Charity Retreat Center
7201 Long Beach Blvd
Harvery Cedars NJ 08008
Our Workshops are designed to:
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-Create spiritually intelligent leadership.
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What is soul? And how do we live a soulful life? People everywhere are
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Behind all of these human desires is the creative impulse of soul. It moves
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Contact
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620 Shore Rd Spring Lake Heights NJ 07762
800-821-9919
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The Spring Lake Heights Counseling Center is an NBCC Approved Continuing
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Hours of certification in psychodrama, group psychotherapy and sociometry as
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Souldrama? is an internationally registered trademark US 903 317
Connie Miller TEP, LPC. NCC
http://www.souldrama.com/
The International Institute of Souldrama
620 Shore Rd
Spring Lake Heights
NJ 07762 USA
1-800-821-9919
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 15:11:14 -0400
From: "Kim Cox" <kimbo.cox at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: The distress is world wide
To: "Edward Schreiber" <edwschreiber at earthlink.net>
Cc: list at grouptalkweb.org
Message-ID:
<eb510d6b0810081211w423f6d66w507b3a9621290929 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
P.P.S. Read his first book first, "The Power of Now"
Kim
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Edward Schreiber <edwschreiber at earthlink.net
> wrote:
>
> P.S.
>
> A great resource:
>
> E. Tolle's paperback book "A New Earth"
>
> Grouptalk mailing list
> List at grouptalkweb.org
> http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
>
--
"Real is better than perfect." - Dorothy Satten
"Do one thing every day that scares you." - Eleanor Roosevelt
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 15:19:23 -0400
From: Edward Schreiber <edwschreiber at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: The distress is world wide
To: "Kim Cox" <kimbo.cox at gmail.com>
Cc: list at grouptalkweb.org
Message-ID: <45BF9DBD-D87D-4279-BAFA-1C0B04CFB01D at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Power of Now is okay but did not speak to me as directly as A New Earth.
Either - whatever calls.
Ed
> P.P.S. Read his first book first, "The Power of Now"
>
> Kim
>
> On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Edward Schreiber
> <edwschreiber at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> P.S.
>
> A great resource:
>
> E. Tolle's paperback book "A New Earth"
>
> Grouptalk mailing list
> List at grouptalkweb.org
> http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
>
>
>
> --
> "Real is better than perfect." - Dorothy Satten
>
> "Do one thing every day that scares you." - Eleanor Roosevelt
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 16:57:51 -0400
From: "Kim Cox" <kimbo.cox at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: The distress is world wide
To: "Edward Schreiber" <edwschreiber at earthlink.net>
Cc: list at grouptalkweb.org
Message-ID:
<eb510d6b0810081357p6ee33977m5c365da431b752a7 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Well for me personally it speaks greatly, because if we as people are really
going to work to heal this Earth, it's gotta start truly within, and with
changing our thought processes and letting go of past and future. That
means, for instance, not getting caught up in fear of armageddon... I know
he touches on this in the new book (reading that one next), but his first
book is a great tool for just getting in the practice of becoming an
"observer" of the mind, rather than just following it.
:-) Kim
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Edward Schreiber <edwschreiber at earthlink.net
> wrote:
> Power of Now is okay but did not speak to me as directly as A New Earth.
Either
> - whatever calls.
> Ed
>
>
> P.P.S. Read his first book first, "The Power of Now"
>
> Kim
>
> On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Edward Schreiber <
> edwschreiber at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> P.S.
>>
>> A great resource:
>>
>> E. Tolle's paperback book "A New Earth"
>>
>> Grouptalk mailing list
>> List at grouptalkweb.org
>> http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "Real is better than perfect." - Dorothy Satten
>
> "Do one thing every day that scares you." - Eleanor Roosevelt
>
>
>
--
"Real is better than perfect." - Dorothy Satten
"Do one thing every day that scares you." - Eleanor Roosevelt
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 18:33:04 -0400
From: Edward Schreiber <edwschreiber at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: The distress is world wide
To: Kim Cox <kimbo.cox at gmail.com>
Cc: list at grouptalkweb.org
Message-ID: <2E9AB878-9300-4239-8C50-53E2A6F9C70C at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
For me on the other hand, it felt that A New Earth - especially it's
Foreword, speaks so directly to this moment we are finding ourselves
in. Tolle talks about the melting down of the systems, the
structures of humanity - and then he turns our head - to see that
this melting down of the structures of society are a reflection, a
mirror, to the melting down of the egoic way of being that has been,
in Tolle's words, madness in the human mind. He leaves us with the
knowing - that there is emerging new consciousness, emerging, in
humanity. My friend Christian de la Huerta calls this "Imaginal
Cells" in the body of humanity. I find this to be the case, and this
is the nature of Sociatry.
Ed
On Oct 8, 2008, at 4:57 PM, Kim Cox wrote:
> Well for me personally it speaks greatly, because if we as people
> are really going to work to heal this Earth, it's gotta start truly
> within, and with changing our thought processes and letting go of
> past and future. That means, for instance, not getting caught up in
> fear of armageddon... I know he touches on this in the new book
> (reading that one next), but his first book is a great tool for
> just getting in the practice of becoming an "observer" of the mind,
> rather than just following it.
>
> :-) Kim
>
> On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Edward Schreiber
> <edwschreiber at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Power of Now is okay but did not speak to me as directly as A New
> Earth.
> Either - whatever calls.
> Ed
>
>
>> P.P.S. Read his first book first, "The Power of Now"
>>
>> Kim
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Edward Schreiber
>> <edwschreiber at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> P.S.
>>
>> A great resource:
>>
>> E. Tolle's paperback book "A New Earth"
>>
>> Grouptalk mailing list
>> List at grouptalkweb.org
>> http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Real is better than perfect." - Dorothy Satten
>>
>> "Do one thing every day that scares you." - Eleanor Roosevelt
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Real is better than perfect." - Dorothy Satten
>
> "Do one thing every day that scares you." - Eleanor Roosevelt
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 04:12:56 EDT
From: MKarp11444 at aol.com
Subject: Fwd: People are the same
To: list at grouptalkweb.org
Message-ID: <c40.46e172c1.361f1708 at aol.com>
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Subject: People are the same
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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 08:05:58 -0400
From: Edward Schreiber <edwschreiber at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: People are the same
To: MKarp11444 at aol.com
Cc: list at grouptalkweb.org
Message-ID: <02D83A15-62AF-4A29-9837-32F578949489 at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Marcia,
You are writing about the Organic Unity. That which connects all of
us to the Source - we are an expression of that Source, the Godhead.
Third - the Central Structure, in my view, is about the SDE, which
impacts, influences all groups, all humanity. It's the interplay of
the SDE and the OU that we touch, with the method - which you are a
Master of. By the way, I miss you! Hope see you in England &
Granada next year. Much love, Ed
On Oct 9, 2008, at 4:12 AM, MKarp11444 at aol.com wrote:
>
>
> From: MKarp11444 at aol.com
> Date: October 9, 2008 4:00:33 AM EDT
> To: list at grouptalk.web
> Subject: People are the same
>
>
> Hello Ed, Adam and all.
> The "central structure that either is found or discernible in every
> human society" helps me to understand why it is possible to work
> with so many different cultures and dfferent habits.WhenItravel to
> so many countries using Moreno's method I find that people are
> essentially the same. I know that Moreno said we have essentially 5
> common dyads: the teacher-pupil, parent-child, employer-employee,
> and I can't remember the other two. (Does anyone know?) but reading
> Moreno's quote about the central structure and about
> telicrelationships makes me think that the sociodynamic effect
> incorporates it all.Even aJapenese person talking to a son in a way
> unfamiliar to me with extreme honoring forexample, I feel connected
> and generally understand what is being said sometimes before the
> translator translates. How is this possible?It surprises me.Am I
> correct in thinking that it is this central structure that so
> profoundly connects us and transcends the culture barriers? Can
> anyone clarify or add to my thinking about this? What I am
> questioning is how come I wind up feeling people are the same even
> though huge barriers separate us. Marcia Karp
> Grouptalk mailing list
> List at grouptalkweb.org
> http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 09:10:15 -0400
From: "HV Psychodrama" <hvpi at hvc.rr.com>
To: <list at grouptalkweb.org>
Message-ID: <536A3C07F5EA45A0A902F490EF07CC64 at Rebecca2>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear Grouptalkers,
I have been in contact with the people who are going to be organizing
the mailing for the ASGPP conference in St Louis. I am giving them my mid
west mailing list and hope that you will do the same. Please get in touch
with me if you are willing to share your contacts with the national office
for this one time mailing. By doing so you will assure that an other
brochure about psychodrama comes across the desk of the people to whom you
have been mailing your own fliers. This helps validate the method to folks
who you would like to attend your workshops. At the same time it promotes
the psychodrama conference to people who are likely to be interested in
attending.
Rebecca Walters
Hudson Valley Psychodrama Institute
68 DuBois Road
New Paltz, NY 12561
Ph: (845) 255 7502
E-mail: hvpi at hvc.rr.com
Visit us at our website: http://www.hvpi.net
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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 06:34:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Linda Condon <lincondon at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
To: list at grouptalkweb.org, HV Psychodrama <hvpi at hvc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <72968.13817.qm at web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Rebecca,
That's a terrific idea.? Thanks for thinking of it.? Linda
--- On Thu, 10/9/08, HV Psychodrama <hvpi at hvc.rr.com> wrote:
From: HV Psychodrama <hvpi at hvc.rr.com>
Subject:
To: list at grouptalkweb.org
Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 9:10 AM
Dear Grouptalkers,
??? I have been in contact with the people who are going to be organizing
the mailing for the ASGPP? conference in St Louis. I am giving them my mid
west mailing list and hope that you will do the same. Please get in touch
with me if you are willing to share your contacts with the national office
for this one time mailing. By doing so you will assure that an other
?brochure about psychodrama comes across the desk of the people to whom you
have been mailing your own fliers. This helps validate the method to folks
who you would like to attend your workshops.??At the same time it promotes
the psychodrama conference to people who are likely to be interested in
attending.
?
Rebecca Walters
?
?
Hudson Valley Psychodrama Institute
68 DuBois Road?
New Paltz, NY 12561
?
Ph: (845) 255 7502?
E-mail: hvpi at hvc.rr.com
Visit us at our website: http://www.hvpi.netGrouptalk mailing list
List at grouptalkweb.org
http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 11:43:29 -0400
From: Edward Schreiber <edwschreiber at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: People are the same
To: Edward Schreiber <edwschreiber at earthlink.net>
Cc: list at grouptalkweb.org, MKarp11444 at aol.com
Message-ID: <CCD6F58F-56E8-45BB-8E3D-D974E7B0F1ED at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
It appears to me that JL and ZT Moreno are essentially teaching
instruments to uncover the organic unity of humanity connected to
the Source within all of - that emerges within us and in groups.
Sociatry, their unfinished business, are instruments for the renewal
of society. It is with this that I inform our community of
something new born in the midst of what we find happening in the
world. Although this birth has just taken place, it has been a long
time coming. There will be further 'reports' about the Foundation's
activities, now in the making and planning.
Much thanks,
Ed
INTRODUCING THE
Zerka T. Moreno Foundation
For Training, Research and Education
?ZMFTRE?
Non-Profit Foundation
Mission
? Psychodrama, Sociodrama and Sociometry of Transformation
Personal, Family, Group and Organization
At this important time in human history
? Sociatry ? A Method for Healing Society
? Publication of the Zerka Moreno Memoirs
? Zerka Moreno Archives
Training, Education and Research Nationally and
Internationally
Based in Massachusetts
Collaborators and Inquiries Welcomed
Edward Schreiber, Director
edwschreiber at earthlink.net
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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:51:20 +0000
From: "Connie Miller" <connie at souldrama.com>
Subject: Our consciousness
To: "grouptalk" <list at grouptalkweb.org>
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Ivo, Ed and Marcia;
Well said. . Long term mental and emotional health requires more than a
temporary reduction of symptoms. What seems to be required is a higher
consciousness, or a spiritual intelligence, from which a larger sense of
self can be derived. All previous cultures have held basically the same
ideas about spirit:
There is an infinite invisible world beyond the world we know and we know
that and we know and experience,
Our mission in life is to discover this infinite world and our purpose in
life.
Some, like I, call this infinite world a Greater Wholeness of Being, or God.
To experience divinity is actually a simple thing as divinity is ever
present. The problem is our consciousness; we need to simplify our
consciousness to experience the divine in all things, to return home and
back to our spiritual intelligence.
Connie Miller TEP, LPC. NCC
http://www.souldrama.com/
The International Institute of Souldrama
620 Shore Rd
Spring Lake Heights
NJ 07762 USA
1-800-821-9919
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