A 3 protagonist drama and healing between the genders Dear Anath, Rebecca, Kate, Connie and all. I am excited that we are talking about experiences common to us and of the same cloth. Kate, your fine examples have inspired us. I would like to discuss
Dr Kate Hudgins
drkatetsi at mac.com
Tue Dec 2 12:57:31 CST 2008
great Marcia...lots of useful information here! I'd like to add to
what you've said
1) when there is a lull in a TSM drama or the protag gets stuck we
usually take one of two paths. The first is to ask the protagonist
to pick more strengths, internal, interpersonal or transpersonal, to
increase spontaneity. The second is to take the protagonist to those
group members who are warmed up through the proces of projective
identification and ask them if this is their feeling, their
dissociation, etc? Then if they have some curiosity we role reverse
there. The person who was deep in feeling...or defense...is now the
main protag and the other is in RR. They dialogue and often go back
and forth before a plan to continue is done. Ah, yes a third
intervention for stuckness and lack of spontaneity. We always start
off our TSM workshops with inspirational cards that are shared in
pairs and then put up on the wall to mark the "observing ego"...so
that is another place to role reverse the protagonist into so s/he
can get a more left brain cognitive observation of the stuckness
which is often causted by dissociation.
for 2 and 3) my main judgement about bringing in others is the
diagonsis of the protagonist....if personality disordered they will
NOT want to share the stage but it may be the right clinical
intervention.....and how who needs to be in what left brain/cognitive
role and who needs the RB/emotional role. Through RR and the use of
a Containing Double we keep everyone in a balanced state so there is
no uncontrolled regression or unchosen catharsis helping to bring
people together rather than split them apart.
I always appreciate you anchoring me in JL/s words and works. Since
I see Zerka so regularly I get her take on things, but they actually
differ quite a bit now from his original words so I like to get the
whole picture and you are good at that.
What great work in Athens.....I have been interviewed, photographed
and written about in chinese many times as well as on chinese blogs
and never see what they say but only help for the best. SMile.
More again I am sure, Kate
On Dec 1, 2008, at 10:18 PM, mkarp11444 at aol.com wrote:
> The indications of when to use multiple protag. 1. When the
> emotional pulse of the protag. Slows down. Very nearly three out of
> four hospital births in the U.S. Are Caesarian. One of the reasons,
> it is postulated, is that if the baby dies, the doctor may be
> involved in a legal suit. Since the baby's pulse rate drops before
> birth, doctors nay take this as a warning sign that all may not be
> well and therefore unnaturally remove the baby by Caesarian section
> to make sure the pulse continues rather than stops. There is a
> parallel situationbetween director and protagonist. I think it is a
> natural development, prior to catharsis or cresendo, that the
> emotional pulse may drop in the protagonist. Unsure directors may
> stop the scene because "it isn't getting anywhere." In fact,
> proceeding normally, it may be the lull before the storm. There are
> many ways to deal with the lull. Techniques can be used as the
> double, role reversal to produce counterspontaneity, interview, non-
> verbal expression, mirroring and many others can heighten or
> exaggerate the implicit feelings and thoughts that can then be made
> explicit. Another intervention can be the use of an alternative
> protagonist just at the low pulse point. The director must check
> out his/her perception to see if the audience member is in fact
> about to give birth. The full term pregnancy in some participant
> observers is made clear by their crying, sitting on the edge of
> their chair, looking angry or being asleep. Complete denial often
> means just the opposite. The sleeping group member arose alert and
> ready to express himself, as do others when the time is ripe. 2.
> When act hunger is greater than the protagonist. If the labour
> pains of the group member are real, the person need only be brought
> onstage to face his/her own "significant other" such as a family
> member, or a concept like death or fatherhood, for example. The
> true emotions which have been kept silent up until that moment are
> given their own timely birth. The original protagonist is still
> onstage, still part of the scene, but the unspoken truth has begun.
> When the second protag. Is finished, role reversal may be indicated
> and also completed. If others in the audience are similarly warmed
> up they may also ventilate what they are feeling or thinking, again
> with the original protagonist still onstage hearing their own
> particular version of a similar story. This is often felt as
> supportive and encouraging. People ask, "doesn't the original
> protagonist feel abandoned by the director or the group?" So far, I
> have not heard that reported. Just the opposite. They feel included
> and not alone. 3. The protagonist is able to share his/her own
> emotional space. If the protagonist appears stunned or overwhelmed
> by what is happening, it is wise to reduce rather than increase the
> number of protagonists. More often than not, the protag. Is
> encouraged by a sister or brother protag. Expressing similar
> thoughts and emotions to their own. The original protag. May want
> to spontaneously continue where the other one left off. Make room
> for the same warming up process in reverse. Now the second protag.
> Is warming up the first. It is similar to the dovetailing that goes
> on in multiple doubling, however the concept is slightly different.
> About the multiple double, Moreno writes, "The protagonist is on
> the stage with several doubles of himself, each portraying another
> part of the patient, one as he is now, another as he was 5 yearsa
> ago, a third as he was when at three years of age he first heard
> his mother died, another how he may be at twenty years hence. The
> multiple representations of the patient are simultaneousley present
> and act in sequence, one continuing where the other left off. The
> protagonist or patient in a psychodramatic production has as his
> purpose to portray scenes and incidents from his own private world,
> which for each person is unique." Moreno,J.L. And Moreno, Z.T.,
> 1975, Psychodrama, volume 3, New York, Beacon House, page 240.
> Here, because each of the multiple protagonists is presenting his/
> her own feelings, not those of someone else, the details may in
> fact be different. I have found that the catharsis experienced by
> the second protagonist or third is as helpful a learning.
> experience to each of them as if they had had their own full
> psychodrama even though it may only be a few minutes in time. It
> assists the original protagonist by result not by design and gives
> a kind of permission to continue or accept what has been expressed
> by him/her or by the other. It is all allowed and part of the same
> general picture. As Moreno said, people are more alike than
> different. In the ASGPP conference in New York in April, 1981, I
> first demonstrated the use of multiple protagonists in a day long
> training session. It was the first time I used it personally. I
> found it amazing to see how the primary protagonist could express
> deep feeling, then stop, listen to the others' profound expression
> and theb easily slip back into her own uncompleted business. She
> seemed helped and sparked off by knowing and feeling thast she was
> not alone in her struggle. As human beings, we have a struggle to
> be the person we would like to be- to negotiate and navigate by
> continually recharting the route we are taking. How comforting it
> is to know we are not alone in the vast sea we call life. Marcia
> Karp P.S. I have just returned from Athens where we run a 5 year
> training programme. On Friday night, in the Hotel President, we had
> a book launch for The Handbook of Psychodrama, Karp, Holmes and
> Tauvon, 1998, published by Routledge, Taylor-Francis, New York/
> London which has been published in Greek. Now it is in five
> languages. 200 people attended. I spoke aboyt the book for an hour.
> Then we had a break, the publisher was on hand to sell the books
> and I was on hand to sign them. Then we had a 4 hour demonstration/
> lecture on psychodrama. Very touching drama about the universal
> theme of fear of losing one's parents, and the protagonist relived
> a happy moment with her dead mother when she was alive and was ablw
> to say what she nevewr did. She titled the scene, "the encounter of
> the soul." Then she did a sculpture of herself with all the good
> qualities her mother has left her as a legacy, or what she
> bequeathed. She added some of her own too to make the sculpture of
> herself and how she wants to go into the future. She used audience
> members to represent beauty, love, compassion, confidence and
> humour. Each audience member said how they appreciated playing the
> role and being chosen for it. Present in the audience was a
> journalist and a photographer from Kathimerini Sunday paper, the
> magazine section. It will be the first time psychodrama is written
> about. Quite historical for them.. They are doing a 6 page spread
> on psychodrama, the public session, the Athens training with Nena
> Vlassa and others and on me. It comes out in the next 15 days. If
> anyone reads Greek, please tell me what it says. The journalist, a
> charming young man, interviewed me for 4 hours the day after the
> public session. They, in Athens, want to have another public
> session when I go again in May. I will go before in Feb. Buit we
> think it is too soon. There are 15 in the training group. A great
> bunch of people. The translator is a trained psychodramatist and
> she helped in the public session. Her sister came too.half the
> audience was new to psychodrama. Many non- clinical professions
> were represented and many university students were there. There
> were 4 wireless microphones. One for the translator, one for the
> protag. One for the auxiliary ego and one for me. After the drama
> we had two for the audience to share. Some came up and sat with the
> protagonist. The engineering staff who arrange the Hotel
> microphones, which didn't work at first during the book launch so
> we had to share one, the translator and me. Anyway, the
> engineering staff stayed to watch the whole 4 hours. We were
> honored and felt safer that they were there in case anything went
> wrong with the microphones but it didn't.
> Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mkarp11444 at aol.com
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 01:12:13
> To: thana ag<anathga at hotmail.com>; <list at grouptalkweb.org>
> Subject: Re: A 3 protagonist drama and healing between the genders
> Dear Anath, Rebecca, Kate, Connie and all. I am excited that we are
> talking about experiences common to us and of the same cloth. Kate,
> your fine examples have inspired us. I would like to discuss
>
>
>
> Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mkarp11444 at aol.com
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 01:11:39
> To: thana ag<anathga at hotmail.com>; <list at grouptalkweb.org>
> Subject: Re: A 3 protagonist drama and healing between the genders
> Dear Anath, Rebecca, Kate, Connie and all. I am excited that we are
> talking about experiences common to us and of the same cloth. Kate,
> your fine examples have inspired us. I would like to discuss
>
>
>
> Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thana ag <anathga at hotmail.com>
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 00:36:35
> To: HV-rebecca Psychodrama<hvpi at hvc.rr.com>;
> list at grouptalkweb.org<list at grouptalkweb.org>
> Subject: RE: A 3 protagonist drama and healing between the genders
>
>
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Kate Hudgins, Ph.D., TEP
Clinical Psychologist
Director of Training
Therapeutic Spiral International, LLC
ww.therapeuticspiral.org
drkatetsi at mac.com
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