A 3 protagonist drama and healing between the genders
Dr Kate Hudgins
drkatetsi at mac.com
Tue Dec 2 12:19:19 CST 2008
interesting this question of some people's training being NEVER have
more than one protagonist and others just finding that natural.
Jeanne Burger, who worked on TSM teams and is an Assistant Leader in
the model, I think taught me the most about how to bring in other
people into the drama, whether as additional or co-protagonists or as
auxiliaries working from their own projective identifications....that
it is a matter of timing. that when timed correctly the original
protagonist does not feel threatened or resentful, but supported and
expanded. Thanks Jeanne!
On Dec 1, 2008, at 7:36 PM, thana ag wrote:
> Dear Kate,Marcia,Rebbecca ,Connie,and all,
>
> Kate: it was good to read your 3 protagonist centered PD. I could
> palpably sense the pleasure of the experience that unfolded before
> your eyes. The preciousness of the unexpected..And modeling to your
> trainees the power of spontaneity.
>
> I have naively taken it for granted the emergence of multiple
> protagonists in PD,as it is obviously the direct result of
> following the spontaneity of the group. If that leads to multiple
> protagonists -so be it,if this meant that leads to mini PDs
> during sharing -so be it.Thus evolved my work...
>
> The wonderful thing about Zerka or Moreno is how they are
> perfectly attuned with the "spontaneity " of the encounter..:.
>
> Marcia; I like the way you worded the process.
>
> I've always allowed for multiple, doubling- for person,an aspect
> etc,whatever the need as way of accessing the healing energy.even
> with the most "disturbed" participants..(Rebbecca,like you no
> luxury of trained,or even untrained aids)
>
> Having spent years applying PD principles to therapeutics made
> me particularly sensitive to this aspect..
>
> Connie: Thanks for the quote from Goethe.He knew all about it.
> in spontaneity,
> anath
> To: drkatetsi at mac.com
> Subject: Re: A 3 protagonist drama and healing between the genders
> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 14:35:54 -0500
> CC: list at grouptalkweb.org
>
> I don't have the enviable luxury of trained auxiliaries, Kate, so
> it isn't so much like the prescriptive doubles you work with as
> much as it is about group members sharing in action in the moment
> what they might feel if they were the protagonist...and of course,
> sometimes they end up doing their own work. Hopefully. I am
> currently working in an in patient environment where the turn over
> is about seven to ten days...the patients are lucky if they get two
> psychodrama sessions. Not a lot of time to train folks what it
> means to double. It is surprising that some of them pick it up
> instantly. Anything we can do to get them on their feet, involved
> and expressing things is GOOD. Most will not have a chance to do
> their own dramas.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dr Kate Hudgins
> To: HV Psychodrama
> Cc: mkarp11444 at aol.com ; list at grouptalkweb.org
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 2:27 PM
> Subject: Re: A 3 protagonist drama and healing between the genders
>
> I am interested in hearing about others experience with involving
> other group members and/or working with multiple protagonists. I
> have long done double protagonists' drama where there is a clinical
> reason for it, much like what Marcia so elegantly wrote. I would
> also include when the protagonist is narcissistic and always tries
> to lay claim to the protag role in a group, that having that protag
> share the stage with another can be really a good intervention at
> the level of personality disorders.
>
> I think the muliple doubling must be much like the TSM specific
> doubles. We have the containing double that balances left and
> right brain, thinking and feeling so that catharsis doesnt take the
> protagonist out of the here and now and we also have the body
> double which helps increase awareness of positive healthy body
> states so that feelings can again be expressed without overwhelming
> the brain and the defensive structures of the protagonists or group
> members.
>
> Thanks, Kate
>
> On Dec 1, 2008, at 1:27 PM, HV Psychodrama wrote:
>
> I also find what I call multiple doubling very effective, for both
> the group and the protagonist, for the same reasons you write
> about, Marcia. It also creates a way for children and young
> teenagers to get actively involved..they cannot often sit for an
> entire protagonist centered psychodrama. I have also found it a way
> to help children learn the words that describe the feelings they
> are having. Like you, I find that the protagonist often appreciate
> what they experience as group support.
> Rebecca
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <mkarp11444 at aol.com>
> To: <list at grouptalkweb.org>
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:42 PM
> Subject: Fw: A 3 protagonist drama and healing between the genders
>
>
>
> Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mkarp11444 at aol.com
>
> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:31:08
> To: Dr Kate Hudgins<drkatetsi at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: A 3 protagonist drama and healing between the genders
>
>
> Dear Kate, congratulations on your work in China. It sounds truly
> innovative and immensely helpful. To train others is a dream.
> Personally, I feel like I am dancing through it, I am so proud of
> what has developed in England, Athens(currently a 5 year programme
> where I go 5 times a year) Geneva with Norbert Apter. We run a
> FEPTO 5 year traing programme and this is formaly ouir second
> training group to graduate but we have been at it since the early
> 1990. I run a 3 year training in Kiev, Ukraine once a year and go
> to Moscow yearly and have gone many times in the past. I have been
> to Japan 8 times in the recent years and many other countries where
> I salute the formidable task they have taken on and theier courage
> to leqrn paychodrama and then to use it in a variety of settings.
> Mostly psychotherapeutic but there are some who use it non-
> clinically, for exame to teach midwives, to do coaching for
> business men, to work in companies, as teachers and one satudent
> works in a youth club and shew uses it mainly for socialization
> skills. The applications of psychodrama are vast, flexible and
> often focused on curing a sick society as Moreno intended. What I
> am writing about tonight is your use of three protagonists in one
> session. I call it multiple protagonists and I wrote about it first
> in the book "Psychodrama Since Moreno" published by Routledge/
> Taylor Francis. Co-Editors:P.Holmes, M.Karp and M. Watson, 1994,
> New York/London, page 45 in the chapter 2, Spontaneity and
> Creativity: the River of Freedom. I have been doing multiple
> protagonist work for over 20 years or more. I have never heard
> anyone else talk about it except Anne Schutzenberger who
> consistently does short action vignettes during the sharing with
> profound results. The participants in these vignettes often get as
> much therapeusis as if they have had a whole 3 hour session. Zerka
> does this too very effectively. In classical psychodrama, one
> protagonist emerges from the group as a representative voice. The
> action of that one protagonist can serve as a warm-up for others in
> the group. At certain moments, individuals become ready to express
> themselves through the process of watching and participating in
> someone elses emotions and thoughts. In those momentsn people are
> like ripew fruit, ready to be picked; their emotions, ideas and
> thoughts are at the forefront. For me, there have been increasingly
> clear indications of when it is appropriate for more than one
> person to participate as protagonist in the same psychodrama. These
> indications are: 1. When the emotional pulse of the protagonist
> slows down and thew pulse of the group member speeds up; therefore
> 2. The act hunger of the group member is greater than that of the
> chosen protagonist in a given scene. 3. The protagonist is able to
> share his/her own physical and emotional space with another person.
> In my experience this is welcomed by the protagonist and they do
> not feel abandoned by the group or by the director as the viewer
> might suspect. Quite the contrary, they feel supported by the next
> protagonist(s) and do not feel so alone with the problem, like in
> sharing. It is action sharing.4. When it is clear that the
> protagonist wants to express a particular feeling or thought and
> can gain strength from hearing it expressed by someone else-it then
> re-activates the original protagonist; they spark each other off.
> "Spontaneity is the state of production and is the engine that
> drives the creative act" Moreno wrote this in 1953 and 1934 in "Who
> Shall Survive", page 334. All the best, Marcia Karp
> Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dr Kate Hudgins <drkatetsi at mac.com>
>
> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 15:40:24
> To: grouptalk Listserv<list at grouptalkweb.org>
> Subject: A 3 protagonist drama and healing between the genders
>
>
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> Kate Hudgins, Ph.D., TEP
>
> Clinical Psychologist
> Director of Training
> Therapeutic Spiral International, LLC
> ww.therapeuticspiral.org
> drkatetsi at mac.com
>
>
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Kate Hudgins, Ph.D., TEP
Clinical Psychologist
Director of Training
Therapeutic Spiral International, LLC
ww.therapeuticspiral.org
drkatetsi at mac.com
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