Fw: multiple doubling/hit and run doubling

[elaine sachnoff]

 A fascinating discussion and indeed, I have seen Marcia ably direct multiple protagonists on a very deep level in many countries.
  I believe that what you are calling "multiple doubles' is what we call "hit and run doubling" [see my article is ASGPP journal]and all our patients pick it up very quickly.[not just inpatients-in our Open Demonstrations the public picks it up quickly too.  Most of my examples are from inpatient work.  
  The instructions are in action-"if you have an idea about what John[P] may be feeling come up and stand behind him and say out loud what you feel."  "If you have an idea of what his mother[Aux]-standing behind the mother- is feeling come up and stand behind her and say out loud what she is feeling"- Just don't do it from the circle because it is confusing and we don't know who you are speaking for." to john-"if what we say is not what you feel or something your mother doesn't feel you correct us and we have to drop it." 
 Of course, as a double, you can say"As your mother I would never say this out loud out what I am thinking is--"  
Or to John, "I know you would never say this to the real person but in this room with Georgia playing your mother, you can say anything" etc.etc.etc. 
 Patients come up because they empathize with the protagonist/have a similar history and don't want to do an entire drama themselves but need to express the feelings.
 Alternatively when they double for the other main person in the drama-they are able to say what their significant person says in their lives or say what they wish they could say in that role.
 Sometimes they come up as a corrective for the role-ie the auxiliary is being too kind or mealy mouthed and they know how the real person would say it.
 Sometimes they come up to be a support to the P to do the work. The reason are many and complicated but very satisfying for everyone.
  If that sounds confused it is my explanation not the process
It is, as has been said-especially good for 1]adolescents who have trouble sitting through a drama that is not their own, 2]psychotics who also have trouble sitting and/or staying in an auxiliary role but mainly because of anxiety and 3]addicts who have the need to be active and express feelings but are not ready to take the responsibility of acknowledging that it is their own feelings not just those of the protagonist.
  Many people stay up in the "hit and run" double position and have much to say.  Frequently they are able to "own" this in the sharing.[how they knew what to say as double.]
 I would not call those people actual Protagonists, though often that will happen and we will have a short scene for them.
 I have also seen Protagonists emerge during sharing in a particularly intense drama.  There, again, a short scene can be done.
I say short because i have 30 to 55 minutes to do this AND share.
 I never saw Zerka or J.L. direct a multiple Protagonist drama, but, I believe that had there been a need, it would have been done.
 I don't remember an actual taboo, I just don't think it ever came up when I was at Beacon or in Manhattan.


--- On Mon, 12/1/08, mkarp11444 at aol.com <mkarp11444 at aol.com> wrote:

> From: mkarp11444 at aol.com <mkarp11444 at aol.com>
> Subject: Fw: A 3 protagonist drama and healing between the genders
> To: list at grouptalkweb.org
> Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 11:42 AM
> Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mkarp11444 at aol.com
> 
> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:31:08 
> To: Dr Kate Hudgins<drkatetsi at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: A 3 protagonist drama and healing between the
> genders
> 
> 
> Dear Kate, congratulations on your work in China. It sounds
> truly innovative and immensely helpful. To train others is a
> dream. Personally, I feel like I am dancing through it, I am
> so proud of what has developed in England, Athens(currently
> a 5 year programme where I go 5 times a year) Geneva with
> Norbert Apter. We run a FEPTO 5 year traing programme and
> this is formaly ouir second training group to graduate but
> we have been at it since the early 1990. I run a 3 year
> training in Kiev, Ukraine once a year and go to Moscow
> yearly and have gone many times in the past. I have been to
> Japan 8 times in the recent years and many other countries
> where I salute the formidable task they have taken on and
> theier courage to leqrn paychodrama and then to use it in a
> variety of settings. Mostly psychotherapeutic but there are
> some who use it non-clinically, for exame to teach midwives,
> to do coaching for business men, to work in companies, as
> teachers and one satudent works in a youth club and shew
> uses it mainly for socialization skills. The applications of
> psychodrama are vast, flexible and often focused on curing a
> sick society as Moreno intended. What I am writing about
> tonight is your use of three protagonists in one session. I
> call it multiple protagonists and I wrote about it first in
> the book "Psychodrama Since Moreno" published by
> Routledge/Taylor Francis. Co-Editors:P.Holmes, M.Karp and M.
> Watson, 1994, New York/London, page 45 in the chapter 2,
> Spontaneity and Creativity: the River of Freedom.  I have
> been doing multiple protagonist work for over 20 years or
> more. I have never heard anyone else talk about it except
> Anne Schutzenberger who consistently does short  action
> vignettes during the sharing with profound results. The
> participants in these vignettes often get as much
> therapeusis as if they have had a whole 3 hour session.
> Zerka does this too very effectively. In classical
> psychodrama, one protagonist emerges from the group as a
> representative voice. The action of that one protagonist can
> serve as a warm-up for others in the group. At certain
> moments, individuals become ready to express themselves
> through the process of watching and participating in someone
> elses emotions and thoughts. In those momentsn people are
> like ripew fruit, ready to be picked; their emotions, ideas
> and thoughts are at the forefront. For me, there have been
> increasingly clear indications of when it is appropriate for
> more than one person to participate as protagonist in the
> same psychodrama. These indications are: 1. When the
> emotional pulse of the protagonist slows down and thew pulse
> of the group member speeds up; therefore 2. The act hunger
> of the group member is greater than that of the chosen
> protagonist in a given scene. 3. The protagonist is able to
> share his/her own physical and emotional space with another
> person. In my experience this is welcomed by the protagonist
> and they do not feel abandoned by the group or by the
> director as the viewer might suspect. Quite the contrary,
> they feel supported by the next protagonist(s) and do not
> feel so alone with the problem, like in sharing. It is
> action sharing.4. When it is clear that the protagonist
> wants to express a particular feeling or thought and can
> gain strength from hearing it expressed by someone else-it
> then re-activates the original protagonist; they spark each
> other off. "Spontaneity is the state of production and
> is the engine that drives the creative act" Moreno
> wrote this in 1953 and 1934 in "Who Shall
> Survive", page 334. All the best, Marcia Karp
> Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dr Kate Hudgins <drkatetsi at mac.com>
> 
> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 15:40:24 
> To: grouptalk Listserv<list at grouptalkweb.org>
> Subject: A 3 protagonist drama and healing between the
> genders
> 
> 
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