A 3 protagonist drama and healing between the genders

Mon Dec 1 18:36:35 CST 2008

Dear Kate,Marcia,Rebbecca ,Connie,and all,

 Kate: it was good to read your 3 protagonist centered PD. I could palpably sense the pleasure of the experience that unfolded before your eyes. The preciousness of the unexpected..And modeling to your trainees the power of spontaneity. 

I have naively taken it for granted the emergence of multiple protagonists in  PD,as it is obviously  the direct result of following the spontaneity of the group. If that leads to multiple protagonists -so be it,if this  meant that  leads to  mini PDs  during sharing -so be it.Thus evolved my work...

The wonderful thing about   Zerka or Moreno  is   how  they are  perfectly attuned  with  the "spontaneity " of the encounter..:. 

Marcia; I like the way you worded the process.

I've  always allowed for multiple, doubling- for person,an aspect etc,whatever the need   as way of accessing the healing energy.even with  the most "disturbed" participants..(Rebbecca,like you no luxury of trained,or  even untrained  aids)

Having spent years  applying PD principles to therapeutics made me   particularly sensitive to this aspect..

Connie: Thanks for the quote from Goethe.He knew all about it.
in spontaneity,
anath
To: drkatetsi at mac.com
Subject: Re: A 3 protagonist drama and healing between the genders
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 14:35:54 -0500
CC: list at grouptalkweb.org

I don't have the enviable luxury of trained 
auxiliaries, Kate, so it isn't so much like the prescriptive doubles you work 
with as much as it is about group members sharing in action in the moment what 
they might feel if they were the protagonist...and of course, sometimes they end 
up doing their own work. Hopefully. I am currently working in an in patient 
environment where the turn over is about seven to ten days...the patients are 
lucky if they get two psychodrama sessions. Not a lot of time to train folks 
what it means to double. It is surprising that some of them pick it up 
instantly. Anything we can do to get them on their feet, involved and expressing 
things is GOOD. Most will not have a chance to do their own 
dramas.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  Dr Kate Hudgins 

  To: HV Psychodrama 
  Cc: mkarp11444 at aol.com ; list at grouptalkweb.org 
  Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 2:27 
  PM
  Subject: Re: A 3 protagonist drama and 
  healing between the genders

I am interested in hearing about others experience with 
  involving other group members and/or working with multiple protagonists. 
   I have long done double protagonists' drama where there is a clinical 
  reason for it, much like what Marcia so elegantly wrote.  I would also 
  include when the protagonist is narcissistic and always tries to lay claim to 
  the protag role in a group, that having that protag share the stage with 
  another can be really a good intervention at the level of personality 
  disorders.  

  I think the muliple doubling must be much like the TSM specific doubles. 
   We have the containing double that balances left and right brain, 
  thinking and feeling so that catharsis doesnt take the protagonist out of the 
  here and now and we also have the body double which helps increase awareness 
  of positive healthy body states so that feelings can again be expressed 
  without overwhelming the brain and the defensive structures of the 
  protagonists or group members.  

  Thanks, Kate

  On Dec 1, 2008, at 1:27 PM, HV Psychodrama wrote:

    I also find what I call multiple doubling very 
    effective, for both the group and the protagonist, for the same reasons 
    you  write about, Marcia. It 
    also creates a way for children and young teenagers to get actively 
    involved..they cannot often sit for an entire protagonist centered 
    psychodrama. I have also found it a way to help children learn the words 
    that describe the feelings they are having. Like you, I find that the 
    protagonist often appreciate what they experience as group support.
    Rebecca
    ----- Original Message ----- From: <mkarp11444 at aol.com>
    To: <list at grouptalkweb.org>
    Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:42 PM
    Subject: Fw: A 3 protagonist drama and healing 
    between the genders

    Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

    -----Original Message-----
    From: mkarp11444 at aol.com

    Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:31:08
    To: Dr Kate Hudgins<drkatetsi at mac.com>
    Subject: Re: A 3 protagonist drama and healing 
    between the genders

    Dear Kate, congratulations on your work in China. 
    It sounds truly innovative and immensely helpful. To train others is a 
    dream. Personally, I feel like I am dancing through it, I am so proud of 
    what has developed in England, Athens(currently a 5 year programme where I 
    go 5 times a year) Geneva with Norbert Apter. We run a FEPTO 5 year traing 
    programme and this is formaly ouir second training group to graduate but we 
    have been at it since the early 1990. I run a 3 year training in Kiev, 
    Ukraine once a year and go to Moscow yearly and have gone many times in the 
    past. I have been to Japan 8 times in the recent years and many other 
    countries where I salute the formidable task they have taken on and theier 
    courage to leqrn paychodrama and then to use it in a variety of settings. 
    Mostly psychotherapeutic but there are some who use it non-clinically, for 
    exame to teach midwives, to do coaching for business men, to work in 
    companies, as teachers and one satudent works in a youth club and shew uses 
    it mainly for socialization skills. The applications of psychodrama are 
    vast, flexible and often focused on curing a sick society as Moreno 
    intended. What I am writing about tonight is your use of three protagonists 
    in one session. I call it multiple protagonists and I wrote about it first 
    in the book "Psychodrama Since Moreno" published by Routledge/Taylor 
    Francis. Co-Editors:P.Holmes, M.Karp and M. Watson, 1994, New York/London, 
    page 45 in the chapter 2, Spontaneity and Creativity: the River of 
    Freedom.  I have been doing 
    multiple protagonist work for over 20 years or more. I have never heard 
    anyone else talk about it except Anne Schutzenberger who consistently does 
    short  action vignettes during 
    the sharing with profound results. The participants in these vignettes often 
    get as much therapeusis as if they have had a whole 3 hour session. Zerka 
    does this too very effectively. In classical psychodrama, one protagonist 
    emerges from the group as a representative voice. The action of that one 
    protagonist can serve as a warm-up for others in the group. At certain 
    moments, individuals become ready to express themselves through the process 
    of watching and participating in someone elses emotions and thoughts. In 
    those momentsn people are like ripew fruit, ready to be picked; their 
    emotions, ideas and thoughts are at the forefront. For me, there have been 
    increasingly clear indications of when it is appropriate for more than one 
    person to participate as protagonist in the same psychodrama. These 
    indications are: 1. When the emotional pulse of the protagonist slows down 
    and thew pulse of the group member speeds up; therefore 2. The act hunger of 
    the group member is greater than that of the chosen protagonist in a given 
    scene. 3. The protagonist is able to share his/her own physical and 
    emotional space with another person. In my experience this is welcomed by 
    the protagonist and they do not feel abandoned by the group or by the 
    director as the viewer might suspect. Quite the contrary, they feel 
    supported by the next protagonist(s) and do not feel so alone with the 
    problem, like in sharing. It is action sharing.4. When it is clear that the 
    protagonist wants to express a particular feeling or thought and can gain 
    strength from hearing it expressed by someone else-it then re-activates the 
    original protagonist; they spark each other off. "Spontaneity is the state 
    of production and is the engine that drives the creative act" Moreno wrote 
    this in 1953 and 1934 in "Who Shall Survive", page 334. All the best, Marcia 
    Karp
    Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Dr Kate Hudgins <drkatetsi at mac.com>

    Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 15:40:24
    To: grouptalk Listserv<list at grouptalkweb.org>
    Subject: A 3 protagonist drama and healing between 
    the genders

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  Kate Hudgins, Ph.D., TEP

  Clinical Psychologist
  Director of Training
  Therapeutic Spiral International, LLC
  ww.therapeuticspiral.org
  drkatetsi at mac.com

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