Patricia, do tell more about Janet and how you use it for psychodrama (Anne)L
PATRICIA DESERT
honeybwomn at msn.com
Fri Aug 8 07:10:25 CDT 2008
Dear Neil--I am not a student of Janet. I came across him in my many readings over the years and read secondary sources to understand only a little bit of his work with clients. I have specialized in treating those suffering and recovering from trauma for 20 years and dissociation of course is a part of the mix. Psychodrama, not wisely used, can trigger dissociation and so I am very careful to always make sure that my clients are in the here and now when doing their work. Co-consciousness is infinitely healing when clients can hold in awareness memory of their trauma in the various ways it manifests and can also stay grounded in the present.
So I do not work with clients in the way Janet did but have assessed my work as a psychodramatist and as a clinician who uses other methods. As I do I see how they all carry imprints of Janet's theoretical, philosophical, and clinical perspective. And they also carry parts of many other's work as well.
As I said to Connie Miller, it continually awes me how we carry the conserves forward and then use them to create different forms. I see that truth in all the psychotherapy methods I use.
Thanks for your inquiry.
Regards, Patti
----- Original Message -----
From: Neil Hucker<mailto:eddy1 at labyrinth.net.au>
To: PATRICIA DESERT<mailto:honeybwomn at msn.com> ; anne.schutzenberger at wanadoo.fr<mailto:anne.schutzenberger at wanadoo.fr> ; list at grouptalkweb.org<mailto:list at grouptalkweb.org>
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 4:44 AM
Subject: Re: Patricia,do tell more about Janet and how you use it for psychodrama (Anne)L
Dear Patricia In the book The Haunted Self there are a number of Janet's
articles that speak directly about feelings but I have not read a
translation.
For example "Problemes psychologiques de l'emotion" (I couldn't get the
accents up).
I am interested how you integrated janet's work nito your own.
neil
----- Original Message -----
From: "PATRICIA DESERT" <honeybwomn at msn.com<mailto:honeybwomn at msn.com>>
To: <anne.schutzenberger at wanadoo.fr<mailto:anne.schutzenberger at wanadoo.fr>>; <list at grouptalkweb.org<mailto:list at grouptalkweb.org>>
Cc: <cbaim at hotmail.com<mailto:cbaim at hotmail.com>>; <damienlabas at yahoo.fr<mailto:damienlabas at yahoo.fr>>; <HoneyBWomn at aol.com<mailto:HoneyBWomn at aol.com>>;
<eva at leveton.com<mailto:eva at leveton.com>>
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: Patricia,do tell more about Janet and how you use it for
psychodrama (Anne)L
>
> Hi Anne--I have only done some reading of Janet because his writing, like
> his contemporaries, is dense and convoluted in many areas, not readily
> available, and the book was on loan to me for only a short while some
> years
> ago. I don't even remember the title. I was fascinated enough to read
> secondary sources that more easily helped me understand what he did. And
> his findings on dissociation and "hysteria" (now identified in the DSM-IV
> as
> DID, PTSD, personality disorders, etc.) and his treatments using hypnosis
> are remarkable and support a lot of what I have learned and do in
> psychodrama and in my practice as a mind/body/spirit clinician that sees
> the
> affective system as a critical structure to address in working with
> clients.
>
> Janet did not address the affective system directly but his work
> recognized
> sensations as a very real part of consciousness that get derailed by the
> dissociated process. And the affective system is what I routinely
> address
> in psychodrama work. His concept of "psychological force" is also a
> mainstay in my work and it directly speaks to spontaneity and creativity
> as
> Moreno conceptualized in his Canon of Creativity and throughout his
> writings.
>
> For example, Janet talked about the "reality connect"--using the senses
> and
> the mind to be in the moment, free from anxious thoughts, images,
> sensations, etc. and able to exercise sound judgment and make accurate
> meaning out of our experience. As Moreno taught us, experience enough
> anxiety and we will experience a disconnect from our creativity. I see
> this
> in some ways as Janet's "reality disconnect"--a loss of unity with body
> and
> mind.
>
> Also, Janet's concept of psychological force and psychological tension he
> describes as the quantity of basic psychic energy available to us and our
> capacity to use it. This is so basic Morenian to me--as it precurses
> Moreno's ideas on spontaneity and creativity. And I see this energy
> sabotaged over and over in clients who become overwhelmed with emotion.
>
> And because I view emotion always as a feeling--after all we cannot feel a
> thought right?--I immediately move into interventions that help clients
> reconnect in safe, calming ways with their body. One of the primary
> interventions I use to help clients become "reality connected" or in
> Morenian language, reconnected with their spontaneity, is the double and
> very specifically the TSM body double.
>
> Another intervention is the mirroring structure whereby the protagonist
> sits
> off stage and 1) puts into words the experience to be enacted, 2) while
> doing so chooses auxiliaries and describes their role, what to say, etc.,
> and 3) watches the enactment. This is excellent for a dissociative
> client
> as I can titrate the action in order to help the client remain present.
> Once h/she can watch without dissociating h/she is ready to move into the
> scene. This intervention reflects a core capacity related to Janet's
> "reality connect"--the ability to experience a coherent narrative
> including
> effects of the experience while staying in the moment.
>
> Of course, psychodrama is a method that requires action that engages all
> parts of self--mind, body, and spirit. Janet, again in what I think was
> revolutionary for his time and unfortunately derailed by Freud's
> psychoanalytic perspective, made no distinction between the intellect,
> feelings, and what we actually do. He saw thought, feelings, and behavior
> intimately interconnected with consciousness, activity, and ideas --all
> that
> support a natural push to manifest and expand or contract depending on who
> we are and what we have experienced.
>
> So movement is a key intervention I use. Anxiety in sufficient force
> paralyze so I get the body moving in safe and supportive ways to break the
> paralysis. When we move physical sensations are stimulated and provide
> opportunities for clients to learn how to safely and knowledgeably
> experience their bodies. Sometimes that happens through a soft, fluffy
> pillow toss , other times through appropriate laughter, and many times it
> is
> to use auxiliaries to personify a client's inner reality in positive ways.
> Strengths building with auxiliaries and then role reversing is a wonderful
> intervention.
>
> As I said Janet did not specifically study the affective system, but his
> concept of dissociation certainly included an understanding that sensation
> was a key component in feeling safe and thinking and acting competently
> and
> effectively. I believe this is why his treatment sessions often included
> painting or listening to music or sculpting. I have used all these types
> of
> activities in my psychodrama workshops and psychodrama a deux. They
> consistently reduce anxiety and stimulate spontaneity and creativity.
>
> His interventions through hypnosis also give us profoundly effective ideas
> for helping clients heal. And while I don't use hypnosis I have applied
> his
> idea of using an altered state of consciousness in other ways to help
> clients access their innate spontaneity and creativity. They include
> creative visualization, mindful meditation structures, affirmation tapes,
> stream of consciousness writing, etc.
>
> In some key respects I see Janet's work as a precursor to Moreno's ideas.
> I
> just wonder if Moreno read his work and was inspired by it. They seem so
> sympatico in some ways.
>
> Top of the evening to you Anne. Thanks for asking. Patti
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Patti Desert, LCSW-C, CEMDR, CP
> Singular Pathways
> 208 East Melrose Avenue
> Baltimore, MD 21212
> Phone: 410.435.3755
> Fax: 410.435.0547
> www.singular-pathways.com<http://www.singular-pathways.com/>
> "from fears and tears to confidence and joy"
>
>
>
>
>>From: Anne Ancelin Schutzenberger <anne.schutzenberger at wanadoo.fr<mailto:anne.schutzenberger at wanadoo.fr>>
>>To: list at grouptalkweb.org<mailto:list at grouptalkweb.org>
>>CC: Schutzenberger Anne <anne.schutzenberger at wanadoo.fr>,LABAS<mailto:anne.schutzenberger at wanadoofr%3E,LABAS> Damien
>><damienlabas at yahoo.fr<mailto:damienlabas at yahoo.fr>>, Patti <HoneyBWomn at aol.com>,Leveton<mailto:HoneyBWomn at aol.com%3E,Leveton> Eva
>><eva at leveton.com<mailto:eva at leveton.com>>, BAIM Clark <cbaim at hotmail.com<mailto:cbaim at hotmail.com>>
>>Subject: Re: Patricia,do tell more about Janet and how you use it for
>>psychodrama (Anne)List Digest, Vol 25, Issue 22
>>Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 01:17:30 +0200
>>
>>Re: Patricia, do tell more about Piere Janet - a French psychiatrist.
>>(1859-1947) and how you use it for psychodrama (Anne)- List Digest, Vol
>>25, Issue 22
>>
>>Dear Patti
>>
>>Please,explain more what you take from Pierre Janet and his "perspective
>>and
>>theories on feelings." in your work -
>>What is it really - nobody explain it on grouptalk, not in real details-
>>
>>And I am very interrested, aspecially because I am working on a new book
>>and new research about what makes psychodrama such an unique wonderfull
>>but complex tool, -
>>-and what various influences we psychodramatists are under;
>>Freud, Janet, Foulkes, Bateson, etc..- or nonverbal communication
>>research
>>-
>>or theater theories ...
>>
>>warmly
>>best of best
>>anne
>>anne ancelin schutzenberger
>>Unjiversity Professor, PhD,TEP,group-anayse
>>transgenerational analyst
>>co-Founder abd actual honorzry archivist IAGP
>>-------------------------------------------------------
>>anne.schutzenberger at wanadoo.fr
>>http://www.psychogenealogie.name
>>====== ======
>>Le 19 juil. 08 à 19:00, list-request at grouptalkweb.org<mailto:list-request at grouptalkweb.org> a écrit :
>>
>>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>than "Re: Contents of List digest..."
>>
>>Today's Topics:
>>> 1. RE: Subtle oppression anecdote (T. Treadwell)
>>> 2. RE: Psychodrama Business (PATRICIA DESERT)
>>> 3. RE: Pierre Janet (PATRICIA DESERT)
>>--------------------------
>>Message: 3
>>Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 20:23:14 -0400
>>From: "PATRICIA DESERT" <honeybwomn at msn.com<mailto:honeybwomn at msn.com>>
>>Subject: RE: Pierre Janet
>>To: adam at blatner.com<mailto:adam at blatner.com>, eddy1 at labyrinth.net.au<mailto:eddy1 at labyrinth.net.au>, list at grouptalkweb.org<mailto:list at grouptalkweb.org>
>>
>>I have read some of Janet's work and resonated with his perspective and
>>theories on feelings. I am interested in hearing from others who may
>>have
>>read him and what they took away from it. Patti
>>
>>Patti Desert, LCSW-C, CEMDR, CP
>>Singular Pathways
>>208 East Melrose Avenue
>>Baltimore, MD 21212
>>Phone: 410.435.3755
>>Fax: 410.435.0547
>>www.singular-pathways.com
>>"from fears and tears to confidence and joy"
>>==
>>From: "Adam Blatner" <ablatner at verizon.net<mailto:ablatner at verizon.net>>
>>Reply-To: Adam Blatner <adam at blatner.com<mailto:adam at blatner.com>>
>>To: "Neil Hucker" <eddy1 at labyrinth.net.au>,<list at grouptalkweb.org<mailto:eddy1 at labyrinth.net.au%3E,%3Clist at grouptalkweb.org>>
>>Subject: Pierre Janet
>>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 13:30:35 -0500
>>
>>Dear Neil, thanks for bringing up the name of Pierre Janet. Googling him
>>brings up 184,000 hits! He's an important and under-estimated thinker
>>who
>>has insights that challenged some of Freud's---perhaps explaining why his
>>work was not fully appreciated during the hegemony of psychoanalysis---a
>>hegemony that tended to also devalue the many insights of others, such as
>>Adler or Jung (who were characterized by the mainstream as merely
>>disaffected former disciples with a father complex rather than mature
>>colleagues with independent and often valid insights), Assagioli
>>(psychosynthesis), Reich, Adolf Meyer, Janet, and so forth.
>> So far I haven't heard of anyone who has investigated common
>>themes. I'm not aware of any evidence suggesting that Moreno knew much if
>>anything about Janet's work. How is it you have become interested?
>>Perhaps
>>you might help us enrich our work by noting some arenas where Janet's
>>insights might be helpful in our own theory development and practice.
>> (And of course I too would be interested if Anne knows of any
>>overlap in the French psychological literature.)
>> Warmly, Adam
>>- - - -
>>-- Original Message -- From: Neil Hucker
>> To: Anne Ancelin Schutzenberger ; list at grouptalkweb.org<mailto:list at grouptalkweb.org>
>> Cc: Schutzenberger Anne ; Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:39 AM
>> Subject::reaction to Anath & Anna Schaum -subtle opression /
>>ListDigest, Vol 25, Issue 18
>>
>> Dear Anne, this is Neil Hucker in Melbourne Australia. I am a
>>psychiatrist psychodramatist and I briefly met you in Melbourne when you
>>were at the PIM conference.
>> I would like to know whether you have any knowledge about Piere Janet
>> a
>>French psychiatrist. (1859-1947) In particulat whether there has been any
>>integration of Janet's theory and psychodrama in France.
>> regards
>> Neil
>>___
>>************************************
>>- Some news from Anne Ancelin Schutzenberger (Paris and Argentiere)
>>Good long French summer holidays in French Alps
>>Argentiere-Chamonix-Mont-Blanc (Hte Savoie) France-
>>
>>In Argentina in 2008 new translation of Anne's books (with new publisher
>>Taurus) and new republications of old translations of Anne's books
>>"Sortir du Deuil" ("Salir del Duelo") with Evelyne Bissone Jeufroy is
>>also
>>in translation and soon in print in Argentina in 2008.
>>
>>November 2007, Anne published a book on Psychogeneazlogy (a new approach
>>to psyvchodrama and grooupwork)
>> :"Psychogénéalogie, guérir les blessures familiales et se retrouver
>>soi",
>>Paris, Payot. (a follow up of her "The Ancestor Syndrome
>>(London,Routledge).
>>
>>) 2007 Collectifve English book with 25 authors, including Anne Ancelin
>>Schutzenberger, Adam Blatner etc
>>édited by Clark Baim, Jorg Burgmeister, Manuela Maciel :
>>"Psychodrama, Advances in Theory and Practice", London, Routledge, July
>>2007.
>>
>>Happy landings
>>
>>Tout de bon - Best of best
>>Anne, Paris, and French Alps
>>
>>Anne Ancelin Schutzenberger, PhD, TEP
>>Professeur des Universites, groupe-analyste
>>Psychodramatiste & analyste transgenerationnel
>>Co-Fondateur et Archiviste IAGP
>>-------------------------------------------------------
>>anne.schutzenberger at wanadoo.fr
>>http://www.psychogenealogie.name
>>
>
>
>>Grouptalk mailing list
>>List at grouptalkweb.org
>>http://grouptalkweb.org/mailman/listinfo/list_grouptalkweb.org
>
>
>
>
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